11:03 AM EDT

Politicians who don't play it safe (and aren't afraid to tell the truth) -- like Howard and Barack -- are first.

Hillary and John ?  You're not first.

Sitka, your comments re. the Obama gaffe (previous thread) are spot on.  Of course you don't want to hand your opponent a stick to beat you with--which is exactly what he did.  Had Hillary made the comments re. Pennsylvanians that Barack made, rd would be calling her an elitist and posting her gaffe thrice per thread, every thread for three days.

Barack made those comments while speaking at an expensive fundraiser in San Francisco.  It was poor judgment on his part.  I like Barack, support him and I believe he'll make a good and possibly great president....let's hope he gets the chance. 

Mark Ambinder from The Atlantic on the Obama gaffe:

But the perilous words for Obama are "bitter," "cling to," "guns" and "religion." Those disinclined to put themselves in Obama's head will read the sentences and see Obama dismissing both religion and American gun culture the opiates of the masses and suggesting that their faith and lifestyle are the product of their bitterness. Voters may believe that one's position on cultural issues is a better reflection of their inner values than one's position on economics.

The substance of what Obama said has the makings of a very good Firing Line broadcast. (Alas...)

The elite media and most Democrats will say... "yeah.. .So? Obama is simply describing world as we know it." His opponents and people who are inclined to view Obama as an elitist will say, "he is dismissing the culture and religion of working class whites."

Indeed, the responses to Obama's words have proven (to Obama allies) a part of his argument. Conservatives are already portraying Obama as liberal, elite, out of touch with the values of ordinary Americans -- exactly the type of legerdemain that Obama was pointing to.

So there's a debate to be had about substance.

But the politics are unquestionably dangerous for a candidate whose appeal depends on him transcending traditional political adjectives like "liberal" or "elite."

Despite his working class upbringing, Obama's hyperconfidence sometimes translates as holier-than-thou, elitist, aristocratic, Dukakis-esque. Republicans know that these attributes aren't popular in middle America, so they will use every opportunity to remind independents and moderates about them.

Obama's professorial disquisition at a fundraiser reinforces in real time these stereotypes. And the complexity of his subject matter does not lend itself to an easy response.

One bright spot for Obama: his campaign's response to the story was quick and strong. Obama himself extemporaneously incorporated a defense of his remarks about an hour and a half after the story broke; the Obama campaign sent reporters examples of similar comments made by Hillary Clinton; the campaign entrusted Tommy Vietor, a mid-level spokesman, to give its official response; had a more senior campaign official given the response, it would have conveyed panic.

(Ambinder is quite anti-Hillary)

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/04/obamas_gaffe_some_perspective.php#trackback 

52.

Sitka
Sat, 04/12/08


"Never truth telling could be a mistake!" In politics, it depends on the words one chooses to tell the truth.
-------------

There is NO “politics”, there IS “life” where words mean a lot and where truth could be described by many different words and still stays as truth.

Clickable to Marc Ambinder - The Atlantic. 

and had Hillary made that particular gaffe instead of Barack, Barack's campaign would jump on it as Hillary's has.  Can't blame Hillary for this one.

I think it can pass but he's got to watch it for the reasons that Marc Ambinder cites. 

   Obama could have chosen his words more carefully. But I do think the media went over the top concerning his comments. I never saw the negative message they saw. If you're the front runner and you try to speak some truth, you better be careful with how you're saying it. Your opponent and the media both will be waiting to pounce on anything questionable.       JM in NY

 had Hillary made that particular gaffe instead of Barack, Barack's campaign would jump on it as Hillary's has.  Can't blame Hillary for this one.

cC

Obama usually lets Clnton's lies, exaggerations, etc. speak for themselves as others will bring them to light for him as with the Bosnia lies.

~~~~~~~~

Think about it: Hillary cannot win this primary as she will never catch Obama's delegate count or any other count nor can she ever acquire his skills and inspiration and intelligence.

So what does she think she will accomplish by attacking Obama at this point? I guess in some distorted way, she and Bill still think she can paint Obama as some kind of bad person for telling the truth and then everyone will see that she should win the nomination.

She is only helping McCain in his weak efforts and helping the MSM keep this long lost primary going for their own benefits. I don't believe the voters of PA will see any of this that way. They may be out of work but they can certainly see through this little charade for what it is.

"The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they don’t vote on economic issues because they don’t expect anybody’s going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues... "


... and that, Dave, is why i decided to run for the Presidency even tho i'd said otherwise.

Finally! That's all you needed to do. To explain why you, why now.

The media

the fourth estate, which has done the yeoman's work for the Republican Party and Multinational corporations for a long, long time attempts to inflame the mob and sway public opinion.

I don't recall the outrage when Sec State Powell went to the UN and lied about weapons of mass destruction.

I don't recall the outrage on Abu Ghraib, although I do recall generic or strictly academic  reporting on the subject SANS OUTRAGE (I grant that the fourth estate reported outrage across the globe, but their concern was how negative a light the scandal might have on America, in general).

I don't recall outrage.  I recall fake fair and balanced for all corners of the fourth estate and the mob mentality it stokes for it's own vanity.

Barack made those comments while speaking at an expensive fundraiser in San Francisco.  It was poor judgment on his part.  I like Barack, support him and I believe he'll make a good and possibly great president....let's hope he gets the chance.

It will be a molehill if he deals with it before his enemies have time to make a mountain of it....

"Last week I made a remark which some people might find inappropriate. Let me say, I wasn't "tired," and I didn't "misspeak." I said some words that I hadn't considered carefully enough, and if I've caused anyone to be hurt by them, I'm truly sorry for it."

How hard was that? 

for s/b from all corners...

She is only helping McCain

Not the first time they've been joined at the hip.

TTfn

jao wrote:  "What I read here, though, is many of you being very defensive & excusing what was said & how it was said. Then going on & blaming both Hillary & McCain because they have picked up on his mistake."

Jao, this is how this blog works all the time with few exceptions.

Jao continues:  "Why not look at it with an open mind..I ask, will this affect white blue collar rural voters? Will they still vote for him? Because in the general, those votes are needed, badly & have previously not gone to the dems, all the time,but went to Reagon, for example. We can't win Pennsylvania in Nov. without them."

 cC,

Thank you for some objectivity. 

   Fact:-    Hillary can't catch Obama in pledged delegates. Fact:-  Hillary continues to attack Obama more than John McSame. I'm beginning to wonder if Hillary's staying in the race and slamming Obama is an attempt to position herself for 2012? Damage Obama enough so that he could lose to McCain in Nov. Then re emerge as the 2012 front runner for the Dems. and run against McCain seeking his second term. Rather than have to wait for her next shot in 2016 after two Obama terms. In 2016 Hillary will be almost as old as McSame is for 08! She waits 4 years less for her next shot this way.  Just a thought.      JM in NY

She is only helping McCain

And the MSM. CNN is having their Saturday rounds of campaigns. Today's is different however. The only campaigns shown have been Hillary and Billary Clinton attacking Obama.

They have shown a short clip a few times of Obama's strong answer that he gave within 1 1/2 hours of the story "breaking" but nothing of his rallies today. I'll keep watching -- it has two hours to go.

The Obama campaign have dug up some Clinton tapes where Hillary has said similar things using similar words. One of their surrogates has them but apparently hasn't gotten to show them anywhere yet.

I do hope Obama will keep on getting his essential points across, using the opportunity to convince voters to vote their economic interests rather than about guns or religion. This could be a win/win opportunity for him and a lose/lose for Hillary's big mouth.

The spouse says that this is what people who are bitter and frustrated do.  Enjoy.

correction on the last thread...

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24882...

Jeff

It's possible but I doubt that is her motive. In her distorted mind unable to accept defeat, she may still believe she can win the nomination by hook or crook.

It's sad and it won't happen. All she is doing in embarrassing the Democratic Party and the Clinton name.

GObama - Send him a few bucks today if you can. We used to send money everytime an attack was made on Howard. We can do the same for Obama. When the Clintons figure that much out, they may figure the jig is up!

From Bill Clinton's December 15 interview with Charlie Rose:

   So I think that the rise of this is sort of crystallized for a lot of people, that I think doubling healthcare premiums has had a lot to do with this -- the further loss of health insurance coverage in America. So there's a lot of economic anxiety.

   In the Republican Party, it expresses itself as this sort of very hard line against immigration. In the Democratic Party, it expresses itself in a very hard line against trade. But the real problem is we haven't created enough good new jobs.

What we need to emphasise is that a liberal is a person who refuses to be subordinate--someone who thinks he's as good as anyone else.

Now, for people whose world is divided into subordinates and elites, anybody who refuses to be subordinate has to be, per force, elite.  See, that's all that means.  It's like being called snooty by a snob. 

You all might be interested to know that I got a plea from someone who signed up with our DFA group, whom I've never met, to please unsubscribe her.  I did, but I also told her that she could have done it herself and that I'm not able to unsubscribe her from DFAlink.  So, she wrote back and said she just couldn't stand getting message like the one that's the main post here.  It would seem that a lot of people have a lot of emotion invested in Hillary and are really upset at how things are turning out.

Hillary should be ashamed of herself for deceiving so many people. 

I don't see where it is poor judgment to say that the reason certain groups of people aren't supporting your candidacy and are leery of all politicians is because they've been burned too many times.  What Obama demonstrated there was an awareness that it's not about him, that people vote for their own reasons and that those are reasons he understands.

Hillary's biggest problem is that she thinks it's about her and that her will be done, as it is in heaven. 

What fourth estate? That concept is another illusion. The people do not own the media. They never have.

FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 04/12/08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good post Fred,,,,Its 4.44pm.............again, my points are not pessimistic or apathetiic, Im simply betting my cards on the electoral proces and contingent of certain voters in thos ekey electoral states that are probabaly 4-10 years away from your 'liberal revolution'...nicely said...........but right now, it is they who are apathetic about th likes of an Obama, the will likley sacrifice one secirity for another..........we shall see.....................

obama is now the straight-talker--and getting hammered for it--while the mcclintons exchange caressing glances.  hillary's surrogate, the effete evan, mouths a talking point about 'condescension,' telling the working class how they should think and feel. 

some indolents in the media slip easily into the tabloid groove. 

it's just too difficult to write a story about positions on trade agreements, which do affect the lives of the working class.  [for one deserving attention, see latimes story about hillary's multiple, opportunistic positions on trade deals, including one with peru as recently as nov 2007.]  nafta.........cafta.........can you say 'brutal'?

it's just too difficult to write a story about the years which lapsed before poor and low-income women were provided breast and cervical cancer treatments under medicaid.  legislation was finally signed by bill clinton in oct 2000, after advocates had been pressing for it since at least 1996.  is hillary 'playing for fools' one of her key constituencies?  would the families of cancer patients be 'bitter,' if they knew what happened during the clinton years?  why don't they know?

it's just too difficult to write a story about the decade-plus interval during which no comprehensive health care legislation covering the uninsured was passed, b/c hillary refused to work with congress--which was considering the possibility of a moynihan-dole bipartisan bill and at least another which resembled obama's health care plan.  hillary's 'universal health care' plan will deliver 46 million uninsured to the pocket of the health insurance industry.  'universal health care' is a 'feel good' slogan, but the media have not probed exactly how the public will benefit and the industry will lose.  why not?

sequence check

5:00pm

5:03

BTW Monica, Thanks for this timely blog, nice additions too with the additional comments.

OK, the reason i'm putting this stuff up is because i agree with it.

CNN still replaying a little Obama's speech addressing his "other" speech -- I have lost track of how many times:))

All designed to help McCain. Nothing can help Hillary, she already lost, she just won't believe it.

I wonder if this latest seige against BO will bring forth a surge of SD's for him. Or are they just going to sit coyly and uselessly by frozen in time.

GObama

Frankly, I had my doubts about the community organizer spiel.  I was a community organizer, unpaid, for seventeen years in Florida until I simply burned out.  But, Obama has shown that he knows what he's talking about. 

BTW, there's a pretty funny spoof of the pundits by "hunter" on KoS.  Imagine the audacity of asking for orange juice when he was offered coffee! 

5:14

We know:))

Fact:-    Hillary can't catch Obama in pledged delegates.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

that is not a true statement right now but the time will come soon enough, but until it does supporters better realize it isn't over yet and get to work and make it happen

the media just wants a horse race

America wants those issues brought up to be addressed.

Well, I was truly shocked to discover the other day that the Clintons allocated a full hundred days to revising the natiional health care system and then, when it failed, they just dropped it.  Period.

And now she comes back and takes credit for Family and Medical leave?

You know, I once ran for city commission just to make sure another candidate didn't get in.  How many people ran this time to make sure the Clinton machine didn't win?  Surely Fred Thompson was one. 

Obama should try and stay within single digits in PA and win by double digits in NC, the outright delegate total is actually still within reach if he would get hot, and that is why Clinton is pulling out all the stops up to and including Republican talking points. what is do or die time for her is still just another contest for him.

I talked to a Hillary supporter today who appears to be steeling for the inevitable

You know, I once ran for city commission just to make sure another candidate didn't get in

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

Monica

I ran for the State Senate once just to keep the Republicans from ganging up against a good State Rep., which they would have if left unopposed. but every candidate runs for personal reasons as well as the greater good.

not living with themselves if they stood idly by appears to be what is driving Obama and that is the best of motives

The media talking heads, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain come off as petty opportunists, grossly misreading the signs of the times.

This is another opportunity for BO to move up in the polls in the remaining states and get those additional delegates for a final knockout punch.

I have visited a number of blogs this afternoon, some big, some small. Except for HRC's blog, which doesn't have a tiny fraction of the activity that Obama's does, my guess would be about 95% are reading Obama's statement in a positive light, as they should.

Speaking of John McCain.........

Some of you may have seen a recent MoveOn e-mail about “Ten things you should know about John McCain.” It’s also on their web site. I figured it was too good to pass up, and forwarding the e-mail to your friends who already agree with you is of limited usefulness.

So I turned it onto a single-sheet flyer to use as an organizing tool. It has space at the bottom where you can enter additional info, just using your web browser. Get it here:

http://www.hcdems.com/republish/mccain_top_10.pdf

If anyone wants it customized, just let me know.

Scary as hell, and the Dems won't lift a finger to stop it

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_r_m_080412_the_coming_war_with_.htm

If the Bush administration, the New York Times, and the Washington Post get their way, the US military will commence with missile and air strikes against Iranian targets before the November elections.

Considering the now constant din of administration warnings concerning Iran it seems likely that they are intent on widening the war in the Middle East before the fall elections here in the US. With the help of news organizations such as the Washington Post and New York Times they hope to drum up enough support for such actions. But if the American people have any say in the matter, the US will pull its troops out of the Middle East, rather than widening and deepening the conflict.

5:55pm

Sitka wrote:

"Last week I made a remark which some people might find inappropriate. Let me say, I wasn't "tired," and I didn't "misspeak." I said some words that I hadn't considered carefully enough, and if I've caused anyone to be hurt by them, I'm truly sorry for it."

How hard was that? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, exactly.  He'll have to walk it back (his statement)....and then try to move forward with what he intends to do for the hard-working people of Pennsylvania...and he needs to name towns cities and somewhat concrete examples of how he has an economic plan to revitalize that state....get their minds off his statement and onto his initiatives.

"Hillary is more elitist than me"....won't dig him out of this hole....nor will "Hillary has made gaffes, too".

I had been watching him creep on her in the PA polls and was beginning to think he might squeak out a surprise win there.  Might have been her death knell.

Now?  not sure.

Huron, the American military knows that it's personnel on the bases in Iraq are sitting ducks.  If they attack Iran, those bases will be taken out.  Admiral Mullen has sent empty ships to the Eastern Mediterranean.  It's my guess that they are getting ready to take out personnel and equipment.  Mullen did say that the DoD is prepared to remove the troops expeditiously if ordered to do so.

"I have visited a number of blogs this afternoon, some big, some small. Except for HRC's blog, which doesn't have a tiny fraction of the activity that Obama's does, my guess would be about 95% are reading Obama's statement in a positive light, as they should."<<<<<<

{{sigh}}Yeah, Barack's supporters....those who have supported him all along and certainly before the gaffe......"read his stmt in a pos. light".....no shit?

It's the people who are disinclined to vote Dem, at all....THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WE HAVE TO GET IN ORDER TO WIN. THE. PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!

People give Ironman Mike a hard time, here, but he predicted McC would win their primary when he was polling in single digits.  HE WON.

A presidential approval rating at 28% yet..... i'm beginning that the Dems cannot win an election for the life of them, sheejus. 

Exasperated.

peace the fvck out. 

cChal

this line of attack is all they have but it is a long time til November

the "regular guy" will win and that is Obama so not to worry

Hillary goes down on CNN

"We have to go after the republican vote. It's the only way we'll win." Then they cave in to the conservative agenda in office, if elected.


... the same ole cr@p out of the DLC playbook.

There's a new thread

... goes down ...

Just caughed a little barf on that one.

... ;~)

Obama doesn't have to win PA, he has home court advantage in game seven of this playoff and this happens to be game three on her home court which makes it a must for her but not for him.

she can quit in dignity if she squeaks out a win

Obama does not need to wheel out his General Election campaign themes yet, just position himself to use them when the time is right.

anybody who does canvasing knows he was speaking truth

and now people will listen when he addresses the issues because of this new focus and everytime people actually listen to him he goes up

For cChal

"THE MOTHER OF ALL BUBBLES"

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=56820

Ecological overshoot whereby humanity exceeds the Earth's carrying capacity is the mother of all "bubbles". Within the current sub-prime mortgage and financial bubbles, and food and energy price increases, we are witnessing the logical and inevitable economic consequences of over-population, resource scarcity, inequitable and unreasonable consumption, and unsustainable economic growth. The global growth machine is seizing up because it is hitting ecological limits, and as a result of its own greed.

Fact:-    Hillary can't catch Obama in pledged delegates.

   O.K. Phil,  I guess you got me there. It isn't an absolute fact, YET. For Hillary to catch Barrack in pledged delegates though, she would need to win almost all the states left. She would also need to win some of them by 75%-25%, or something close to that. She hasn't won any state yet with that kind of margin. 

   Barrack isn't going to lose every state left. That's just not going to happen. Especially Oregon. He's got a comfy lead in NC at this time too. If her win in Penn is only single digit and she loses NC by double digit, the game could be officially over. I'm hoping for a big NC turnout. That should help Obama.               JM in NY

8:39 - chiming in on an old thread - to say that Hillary was not justified in totally twisting what he said - did you hear her, people?  there would be no problem if she attacked him for his words, but she tiotally changed them, however you look at it.  listen to her speech.

The whole affair seems to be much ado about little. The bigger issues remain. Barack is fine, his supporters aren't, and one wonders if they don't know or don't understand the harm they are going to do ( to themselves, as well as the country) but Obama is fine.