Q:  Who is first?

A:  Dean.

Please help the Alaskan Native Villagers of Yukon Flats save their way of life.  Plus the wildlife. 

http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Magazine/summer2007/yukonflats.cfm

If so inclined please sent your comments to: Comments are open until Apr 25.

http://yukonflatseis.ensr.com/Yukon_Flats/Comments.aspx

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24391#comment-1182226

throw back

For the record, Fred, I didn't use the word "anti-vaccine" in regard to you. I said I understood your concern with vaccines. That's because I share that concern as well as a concern with medications in general.

Yep, it looks like we are speaking of different trials.

As for the statement that HIV is a difficult infection to get orally, this is true. HIV has to make a direct entrance into the bloodstream to infect. A person with a mouth, esophageal, or (long shot) stomach lesion could get it orally, but that would be about the only way.

I know next to nothing about polio or how it is tranmitted, but I believe the transmission mechanism is different because didn't people get it somehow through water, while swimming?

-- volney

What's the number cause of most all the problems we have in the good old USA? Corporations taking control (Military Industrial Complex, Pharmaceuticals, Gas/Oil, Insurance, Media etc.)

What's the best solution? Taking back the public airways from the corporations...the rest will follow with an informed public.

s/b number 1 cause...jeezum crow

35.
volney simmons
Sun, 03/23/08

Reply to this

Fred at 29/30, in my first post I posted a link to a source where everything is sourced and footnoted

"In his book, The River, the journalist Edward Hooper suggests that HIV can be traced to the testing of an oral polio vaccine called Chat, given to about a million people in the Belgian Congo, Ruanda and Urundi in the late 1950s. ....Many people have contested Hooper's theories"

========================

Your source also says:

Furthermore, the oral administration of the vaccine would seem insufficient to cause infection in most people (SIV/HIV needs to get directly into the bloodstream to cause infection - the lining of the mouth and throat generally act as good barriers to the virus).4

This is obviously nonsense.  It is ludicrous to believe people cannot be effected by a virus by orally absorbing it - even if this were true, then how does  the vaccine (a live attenuated polio virus) get to work, if it is not absorbed??????

My source refers to  a study  "Lederle" study that was given to  320,000 infants and children

Possibly our sources are referring to two different trials.

The denial of the vaccine hypothesis is not a conspiracy theory.  I am not saying the evidence is conclusive either way. It is just a question of so many people obviously biased to being "pro-vaccine" avoiding answers to inconvenient questions, and skewing research to validate predetermined claims.

49.
Fox Mulder
Sun, 03/23/08

 I will agree if you can tell me when the debt is paid

===================

Barak Obama jokes in his book that his "affirmative action" benefit was getting into a prestigious private elementary school in Hawaii, because his white grandparents had connections.

How many people do you know that get into colleges and universities, medical school etc. because of family legacies, or monetary endowments by people they know or to whom they are related?

How much of that kind of advantage have African Americans had over our history?

But you have right-wing conservatives acting as if it is a level playing field, and that blacks have only themselves to blame.

The Intellectual Poverty of Frank Rich
by Larr Johnson, Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:39:48 PM EST

While the competition has been keen at the New York Times to secure the mantle as the most virulent Hillary hater, Frank Rich is in a class by himself. No other columnist now writing for the "Gray Lady" is more intellectually dishonest and lacking in basic integrity than Frank Rich, the bloviating former theater critic turned professional Hillary basher. Maureen Dowd? Alternating between catty and crazy, Dowd's nose is out of joint apparently because Hillary looks better in boots. How about Bob Herbert? You can't fault an African American who wants to give a brother a break and devotes his time to peddling moralizing conventional wisdom and cheer leading like there's no tomorrow for Obama. And William Kristol and David Brooks? They are just neocon party-liners. (Only one among the NY Times line up ever writes anything complimentary about Hillary-Paul Krugman, who has a day job at Princeton as an economist, actually knows something, and let's the chips fall where they may.)



Week after week, Rich slings the mud at Hillary, oblivious to facts. Stunning but not surprising given his track record. He did the same thing to Al Gore-sliming the 2000 Democratic nominee as a liar and fraud. Rich was among the useful idiots of the press corps aiding and abetting the election of George W. Bush. But his attacks on Hillary have the smell of desperation.

Rich, in his comic book style, portrays Hillary as the villain plotting against the adored black superhero. There's nothing evil she hasn't done or won't do. She's responsible for the Iraq war, not George W. Bush. BAM! She's the racist, even though it is Obama who has spent the last 20 years enabling and protecting his racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American pastor and mentor, Jeremiah Wright. ZAP! Yes, after reading Rich, you can draw no other conclusion-Hillary's a low-life who can never measure up to the spotless Obama. KA-BOOM!

This week Rich warmed up by trashing Hillary's precise, thoughtful policy speech on how to deal with Iraq, comparing it unfavorably, of course, to Obama's immortal Gettysburg Address (wherein he lies about having known about Rev. Wright's hate mongering sermons and throws his grandmother under the bus). Here's Rich sliming Hillary and exalting Obama:

Mrs. Clinton needn't have Mr. Obama's poetry or pearly oratorical tones to deliver a game-changing speech. She just needs the audacity of candor. Yet she seems incapable of revisiting her history on Iraq (or much else) with the directness that Mr. Obama brought to his reappraisal of his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Then Rich claims that Hillary is lying about her record on the Iraq war and that she was a liar about voting for the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Resolution in 2002 (along with the majority of Democratic senators) because she says that it was in fact what it was: not a declaration of preemptive war.

Of course, Rich conveniently ignores Obama's flip-flops on Iraq, going from opposing the war when he had no vote on the matter to supporting the Bush policy when he arrived in the Senate. And now he's Mr. Anti-war. It is enough to give your average pundit whiplash just trying to chart his varied positions. But not Frank Rich, he sees nothing but Hillary, but never in a favorable light.

And Rich, of course, doesn't ever describe Hillary's actual position at the time, delivered in her floor speech, that she favored letting the United Nations weapons inspectors finish their job and building an international coalition before any invasion. Of course, Rich doesn't want to cite her real stance because it would confound his hysterical posturing. Hillary's approach was against preemptive war--an approach that Bush did not follow. Bush did not listen to her. It was his war and his war alone.

But Rich's obvious falsehoods and hype aside, left me wondering: Where was this brave visionary in the run up to the war? Let's apply the same standard to Frank Rich that we say should be applied to Hillary. What was Rich writing at the time? Thanks to the archives of the New York Times, now online and easily available, I was surprised to discover that some writer named Frank Rich gave credence to Bush's claims about weapons of mass destruction, attacked the U.N. weapons inspectors, and misrepresented the positions of Democrats, including Hillary's, and questioned their patriotism.

full story
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/23/1739...

IF DEMS CAN'T CAPITALIZE ON THIS..........

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=55193

Analysis suggests that the McCain plan shares five key characteristics of Bush policies. First, it is enormously expensive, costing more than $2 trillion over the next decade and essentially doubling the Bush tax cuts. Second, the McCain plan would predominantly benefit the most fortunate taxpayers, offering two new massive tax cuts for corporations and delivering 58 percent of its benefits to the top 1 percent of taxpayers...

6:17PM
 

OK Fred, I looked up polio transmission and HIV transmission and they are in fact transmitted differently.

Polio has to enter by mouth. It multiplies in the throat and then again in the small intestine before the infection actually enters the body tissue.

HIV does not do well in an acidic environment like the digetive system. It needs to enter via open lesions or through the mucus menbranes and hence directly from one bloodstream to another.

So that's the difference.

-- volney

Hillary's Chances, slim and none

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/carpenter/020

After seven years of vastly experienced presidential lying, conniving, weaseling, obfuscating, twisting, manipulating and swindling, the last thing most voters wanted was more Washington experience. But what did Hillary give them? Thirty-five bloody years of it. Reams of it. Mountains of it. Endless lectures and tutorials about it.

For a candidate known for her slyly calculating nature, it was one of the most colossal miscalculations in American political history. And that, I'm sure, is how future political historians will write her political obituary of 2008, just after noting another colossal and preceding miscalculation -- her 2002 Iraq war vote.

It's about time. Because this race was over as of January 4. It just took a while for journalists to get around to reporting it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7300708.stm

Printable version Ordinary life in a broken country  Oliver Poole, one of the few Western journalists who stuck it out in Baghdad for most of the five years since the US-led invasion, leaving only in November 2006, reflects on the impact of the war on Iraqi families.

Economic Rescue Plan Called MIA for Women

By Kara Alaimo WeNews correspondent

Last week the Federal Reserve stepped in to save financial giant Bear Stearns from bankruptcy. Women's advocates say a similar rescue package must be crafted for women losing jobs and homes and facing tax payments on April 15.

(WOMENSENEWS)--Last week, the Federal Reserve extended a $30 billion line of credit to save investment bank Bear Stearns from bankruptcy and allow JP Morgan Chase, another financial giant, to scoop it up at a rock-bottom price.

Women's financial advocates say fair enough. But they are using last Sunday's startling $2 per share purchase, backed by the Fed, to spotlight what they see as the moral hazard of not doing more to keep middle- and low-income people--among whom women predominate--financially stable as well.

"When the economy gets a cold, women get pneumonia," said Michele Leber, chair of the Washington-based National Committee on Pay Equity, which is pushing legislation to make it easier to sue for wage discrimination. ...lots more: http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/d...

Obama should appoint Howard to be in charge of the search for a VP.

Look how well it worked for Cheney in his search.

C-span NOW, ROAD TO WH FL mI.

OK Fred, I looked up polio transmission and HIV transmission and they are in fact transmitted ...
HIV does not do well in an acidic environment like the digetive system. It needs to enter via open lesions or through the mucus menbranes and hence directly from one bloodstream to another.

===================

The mouth is all mucous membrane and there are plenty of open sores in mouths and digestive, like ulcers, hemmorhoids, and the blood on your toothbrush/floss if you don't  brush and brush/floss often enough.

People have been eating monkey in Africa for centuries but quite a coincidence they should get AIDS at the same time that drug companies were experimental trials of vaccines.  And there were many of them. But these are questions, no answers. 

I quote:

"...Finally, the panel could not refute the possibility of transmission [HIV by vaccine], and  suggested that relevant samples of vaccine stock be tested for HIV/SIV viruses (Poliovaccine, 1992)

This is exactly what a group of researchers at the National Institute for Biological Standards in England proceeded to do.  The conducted  a laboratory  examination of oral polio vaccine preparations from 4 manufacturers used between 1975 and 1984, the ersa prior to testing for SIV contamination.  They found no evidence of HIV or SIV gene sequences in these samples -- but these were not the same cultures as those used in the period 1957 to 1960 in the Congo..".(The Vaccine Guide)p. 64  

This book also recommends "The River"  the book, as a source for studying this theory of AIDS transmission.

interesting editorial from a paper who no longer supports Lieberman, with responses from CT voters - once there, you can click to read full editorial:

We wonder what happened to that senator.

Sen. Lieberman's open-ended commitment to military involvement in Iraq comes as no surprise. The senator made it clear when running for re-election that was his position. Sen. Lieberman wants the United States military to remain in Iraq until the war is won, whatever that means. It conflicts with this newspaper's position that the time has come for a gradual withdrawal of U.S. forces.

Despite that difference of opinion, The Day editorially backed the senator because of his experience, his willingness to put principle above politics, as demonstrated by his condemnation of former President Clinton following the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and his even-handed political approach.

But while Sen. Lieberman remains experienced, he is no longer even-handedly principled.

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=db05be8c-03fc-4323-9a5c-3c4fe0b05d4f

 10. volney simmons

===================

Your source states:

"In February 2000 the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia (one of the original manufacturers of the Chat vaccine) announced that it had discovered in its stores a phial of polio vaccine that had been used as part of the program. The vaccine was subsequently analysed and in April 2001 it was announced that no trace had been found of either HIV or chimpanzee SIV.5 A second analysis confirmed that only macaque monkey kidney cells, which cannot be infected with SIV or HIV, were used to make Chat.6 While this is just one phial of many, it means that the OPV theory remains unproven."

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm
=======================

...it means that the OPV theory remains unproven."
I'll go along with that...

It doesn't mean it's been disproved either.

For the record, Fred, I didn't use the word "anti-vaccine" in regard to you

I will, that and his hatred of Isreal are the few consistency in that conspiratorial mind.

Economic Rescue Plan Called MIA for Women

That reminds me of a NY Times headline   "World to end tomorrow!"  On the line below read "Poor Women and children hardest hit."

hatred of Isreal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fox the hatred is in your mind, move along

Larry Johnson is a fascinating character.  A registered Republican, he became a CIA analyst in 1985 upon the recommendation of Sen. Orrin Hatch, where he worked until 1989.  From 1989 to 1993, he was a Deputy Director in the State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism. 

He voted for Bush in 2000.  Under the circumstances, there'd be no reason to think he had even a thing to do with Democrats, except he was a trainee with Valerie Plame in the CIA, and so harbors ill will towards the White House actors who blew her cover.  Of course, her husband, Joseph Wilson, is also a devout Clinton backer.

He currently runs No Quarter, a pro-Clinton, anti-Obama website with frequent contributor Susan Hu, who spins diaries denouncing Obama at myDD week after week after week.  He also doesn't like Marcos at Daily Kos.

19.

Fox Mulder
Sun, 03/23/08
-------------
volney simmons
Sun, 03/23/08


For the record, Fred, I didn't use the word "anti-vaccine" in regard to you
---------------
I will, that and his hatred of Isreal are the few consistency in that conspiratorial mind.

===========================

Thanks, volney. I'm waiting for diptheria and tetanus to be available in a single shot, like I believe is available in Europe, where vaccines are completely voluntary.

I would give my daughter most of the others too if they got rid of the ethylene glycol, aluminum etc. (and mercury of course, if any left) and gave them in single shot.

If not, I'll wait until she gets a little older, and think about it.

that is a story from the Onion isn't it Tom?

Phil wrote "that is a story from the Onion isn't it Tom?"

Make use of the wonder that is the internet.

Fox,

I don't hate Israel or Jews. I don't hate Palestinians either. You don't have to hate one to love the other. Ten times more Palestinians are dying than Israelis.

I truly believe Israel can be a true democracy and share the land and government with the indigenous Palestinians, who should have the same right-of-return to their homeland last century, as the Israelis claim from over 20 centuries ago.

God gave them that land, for Jews only?

I think that's a lot of sacrimonious bullshit. That doesn't mean I hate God, and doesn't mean I hate Jews. It just means I don't believe it, any more than I believe God only loves Christians, which is also bullshit.

Printable version

I have witnessed a disturbing amount of death and injury, and several of my friends have lost their lives. Others have become refugees and asylum-seekers.

It has lasted almost as long as World War II and cost almost as much.

Only one of its original aims, the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, has been achieved.

Of the other aims, one was unobtainable because Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction to be destroyed, and the other - bringing democracy to the Middle East - has been indefinitely postponed.

New thread.

Printable version Dozens die in attacks across Iraq A string of suicide attacks, shootings and rocket strikes have claimed dozens of lives on a day of violence in Iraq.

3.

volney simmons
Sun, 03/23/08

As for the statement that HIV is a difficult infection to get orally, this is true. HIV has to make a direct entrance into the bloodstream to infect. A person with a mouth, esophageal, or (long shot) stomach lesion could get it orally, but that would be about the only way...

=================
I heard once that prostitutes (I forgot where, maybe Africa) were only giving oral sex because they thought it would keep them from getting AIDS, but some got it anyway.

From the link you provided

Can HIV be transmitted during oral sex?

HIV can pose a small risk for both the active (person giving the oral stimulation) and receptive (person receiving oral stimulation) partner.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/24425

new one

Tonight on CNN at 10 EST and 9 Central

"BEYOND THE SOUNDBITE": Rev. Wright.

21.

Fox Mulder
Sun, 03/23/08

It's news about women written by women. Get over it.