Dean is first!

When a Drug Costs $300,000

The extraordinarily high prices of some drugs used to treat ultrarare diseases raise troubling questions for the American health care system....

As a case in point, Genzyme, a Massachusetts-based biotechnology company, has long charged more than $300,000 a year for typical patients on Cerezyme, a drug used to treat Gaucher disease, a rare, sometimes fatal, inherited disorder...

The company is essentially exploiting a monopoly position to charge what the market will bear to treat desperate patients with no other option. This is hard to take, given that the federal government did much of the scientific work that led to development of the drug and provided contract money that got the company started.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/opinion/23sun3.html?th&emc=th

==================================

"BACK DOOR" CORPORATE WELFARE

The Sunday pundits seemed to hover around one specific comment by Rev. Wright, and that was the one about AIDS being cultivated by whites as a way to commit genocide on blacks.

This link gives all the theories on the origin of HIV/AIDS, including the conspiracy theory:

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

The most logical theory involves the butchering of monkey meat, but there's a possible link to colonial oppression even disregarding the most extreme theory.

I can understand why the black community would look for an explanation that doesn't end up blaming Africa for yet one more bane on civilization. OTOH, if whites helped cause or abet the spread of AIDS either deliberately or through carelessness, I can see why they would want to deny/obscure their role.

Looks like one of those eternal mysteries.

-- volney

Happy Easter!

Thank you, Susan Rowe.

Happy Easter to all.


hmmmmm, let's examine the state of the Dem nomination race.

Now the Clinton camp is counting on white racism in the North (PA) to put her in front, or at least influence the superdelegates. (???, and so much for all the crap i've taken about the South)

AND Clinton supporters would vote for the repuke nominee if their white pro-war candidate doesn't pull off a miracle. (???, and again, i didn't vote for pro-war Kerry just 'wasted' my vote on Howard Dean)

For 'seasoned veterans' of politics these Wallace-Reagan-Clinton democrats really should join the republican party and get it over with - tho that may well be the death blow for the G.O.P.

On Chris Matthews Sunday show a male guest whose name I cannot tell you offered that he had heard from a Clinton staffer that her staffers were saying they would not stay with her if she was going to destroy Obama. Chris asked where he heard that and the guy replied, "reporting."

On CSPAN this morning a caller offered the HIV/AIDS explanation that the disease had come from monkeys whose blood had been used in tests on humans and that the monkeys carried the disease naturally with no harm to them, only to us. This is prolly explained in Volney's link above. In other words, perhaps HIV/Aids was 'caused' by medical testing by nice white folks from America. I have always personally thought this to be a very plausible explanation.

On Rev Wright and 'God damn America.' I would never say God damn anything b/c I just wouldn't but I must say I do feel that loss of innocent belief in my country. I've prolly told this before but I was on a 'grand tour' w/ mostly Aussies and in Barcelona when Abu Ghraib broke. It was a time to be very glad to hide amongst the Aussies while overseas.

Florida KNEW they could lose ALL their delegates if they voted yes to move the primary.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1932

"At its meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida’s plan in noncompliance with the DNC rules, and voted to increase the sanctions against Florida by reducing the state’s delegation by 100% unless the state party, within the 30-day period allowed by the
Committee’s regulations, submitted a plan for an alternative, state party-run process on or after February 5 that would be used to allocate delegate positions."

They had 30 days to act in good faith.  They refused.   They could have voted no, they voted yes instead.

Video...most definitely not in good faith...two minutes that changed the primary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHuQi17EaE

http://chattanoogapeacemarch.org/
(tho this is last years footage, i expect the new one soon)

Both Herb, a Iraq 'war' veteran victim of depleted uranium, and Chris, Green party candidate for the U.S. Senate, did an excellent job presenting the call for peace and accountibility.

Strength through Peace!!

Is everyone going to be talking about Rev Wright forever? 

I know this is silly but it is cute.  Peeps for Obama

http://parentingsquad.com/files/parentingsquad.com/u3/peeps_for_obama.jpg

Thanks for your front thread Susan.  I love the video.

The most logical theory involves the butchering of monkey meat, but there's a possible link to colonial oppression even disregarding the most extreme theory.

===========================

There is also an even more logical  theory that one of the early polio vaccines caused the virus to come from monkeys from culturing vaccine on monkey  cells, a common practice.  

But of course, one could easily see why the "cut hunter" hypothesis would be more popular.

"An experimental oral polio vaccine campaign during 1957-59 included 320,000 infants and children in the Congo (Zaire) area of Africa.  That vaccine was never approved of human use and never used after 1960."

"One reviewer stated it boldly and simply "It is difficult to believe that the outbreak of HIV infection in Africa at the same time and the same location as this mass polio vaccine trial is a coincidence."  (Neustaedter, The Vaccine Guide)

yes, thanks Susan.  wonderful video.

HOPE, NOT FEAR.

Yesterday on CNN they showed a video of this beautiful young girl and her Obama ad. They started out with her speaking a few opining words, then froze the video, while the CNN Internet pundit read most of the girl's remaining words.

CNN is scared to death of Obama and anyone who supports him.

Fred, I understand your concern with vaccines, but according to the link there are two problems with the vaccine theory. One is that HIV was already in the human population before the vaccine project was undertaken, and the other is that so far the only evidence that exists for that project contains macaque cells, not chimpanzee cells, and macaques do not carry any virus similar to the chimp virus that appears to have mutated into HIV.

-- volney

Joan, currently at 13.

I don't think the media knows what to do about Obama. If they report honestly they look like they are fawning (support him or not, he is a person of exceptional gifts), and if they strive for "balance" they look like they are piling on.

What I always do is look at the size and positioning of the crowds. Hillary has never drawn the size crowds Obama has, although I think if she and Bill appeared together they probably would (but there's that pesky 22nd Amendment thing again).

I was particularly interested in her appearance in Michigan to push for the new primary, where the rally was obviously a curtained-off area of a much larger venue that she did not fill.

I suspect it was a media event staged by party committee members rather than any fervent groundswell of ordinary folks to go vote a second time.

-- volney

Fred, I understand your concern with vaccines, but according to the link there are two problems with the vaccine theory. One is that HIV was already in the human population before the vaccine project was undertaken, and the other is that so far the only evidence that exists for that project contains macaque cells, not chimpanzee cells, and macaques do not carry any virus similar to the chimp virus that appears to have mutated into HIV

==================

There is infinitely more bias out there in favor of vaccines to bias the media and science community.  My source is heavily referenced.  I wish I could put it online, but it is a book. 

The range theories that were proposed do not restrict the possible sources to Chimanzees alone.  Mangabey and Green monkeys also have similar viruses to humans.  African green monkeys were the source for that vaccine.  About the green monkey.... 

"Researchers at U.S. Bureau of Biologies recorded that three samples of the Lederle polio vaccine contained between 1,000 and 100,000 simian viruses per ml. of vaccine, much higher concentration than later safety regulations allowed" (ibid, p.62)

Researchers have criticized the "cut hunter" hypothesis as taking too long to spread AIDS compared to the rapid epidemic that actually occurred.

Happy Easter everybody! LOL

DEMOCRATS--A REPLAY OF '68?

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=55184

As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton appear set to go to Denver to fight out a bitter nomination battle, so the Democrats approached Chicago without a nominee but with two strong candidates splitting the delegate count almost down the middle. Even some of the militancy of the Sixties anti-war movement has been reborn. A homemade bomb was recently thrown at a military recruiting station in New York. One newspaper reprinted a list of similar attacks across the US under the headline: 'Peacenik thugs'.

But those longing for - or fearing - a re-run of the Sixties should relax. The differences between 1968 and 2008 are as profound as the similarities. The current anti-war movement does not have anywhere like the political power or media visibility of its Vietnam era counterpart. Marches are smaller and less frequent and no groups, such as the yippies, or leading protesters, such as Hoffman, have emerged to national prominence.

At the same time, police have learnt the lessons of Chicago. In 1968 the protesters were allowed to march right up to the barricades. Now they are often herded far away from the events they are demonstrating against or, as happened at the 2004 Republican convention in New York, arrested in large numbers before trouble breaks out.

Another key difference is the absence of the draft. Thousands were conscripted into the Vietnam war, outraging them and their families. Iraq is being fought by a volunteer army, perhaps explaining why it has not registered as a defining issue in the 2008 election campaign.

2:47PM

... the only evidence that exists for that project contains macaque cells, not chimpanzee cells, and macaques do not carry any virus similar to the chimp virus that appears to have mutated into HIV

=========================

This is interesting because the source I have says

"Later researchers also proposed that HIV-2 was probably spread to humans from SIV [simian immunodeficiency virus] -infected monkeys through scratches, bites, or blood exposures while humans hunted and butchered the West African mangabey monkeys in the wild (Nowak, 1992) Another simian virus, this time SIV from chimpanzees, proved to be remarkably similar to several HIV-1 viral strains, thus connecting  AIDS in both the United States and (HIV-1) and Africa (HIV-2) with primates (Huet et al, 1990) Some researchers referred to this connection between the SIV in chimpanzees with HIV as the missing link to the origins of HIV-1 in humans (Desrosiers, 1990)  Similarly, HIV can infect macaque (agy et al, 1992) and African green monkeys (Lecatsas & Alexander, 1992)  Researchers continually  discover these connecting links between SIV and HIV  strains, HIV in monkeys, and SIV infections in humans"  (Nuestaedter The Vaccine Guide p. 61)

And the green monkey was used to make the vaccine in that vaccine trial that occurred during what we, in retrospect, see as the first AIDS epidemic in Africa.

Is everyone going to be talking about Rev Wright forever?

=====================

I knew a white hillbilly Catholic priest that use to "God damned" for no reason, jest as an expression.  In fact, I once had to tell him to stop, that it bothered me. "we all slip sometimes" was the priest's answer.

But it seems talk of segregation and  "anti-miscenegation" is so much acceptable to the right wing and never seems to hurt them in elections.  That really sucks.

  This country has a moral and economic debt to pay  African-Americans for centuries of abuse, violation of basic human rights, and unpaid labor, and the right wing act as if  African Americans owe white people something.

Speaking of the 22nd Amendment, I've been thinking about how Billary are pushing the co-presidency thing.  Bill Clinton has said in 2003 that he thought the amendment should be "modified:

“There may come a time when we elect a president at age 45 or 50, and then 20 years later the country comes up against the same kind of problems the president faced before,” Clinton said — who coincidentally was 46 upon being elected in 1992. “People would like to bring that man or woman back but they would have no way to do so.”

He added, “I think since people are living much longer…the 22nd Amendment should probably be modified to say two consecutive terms instead of two terms for a lifetime.” Clinton also joked that were it not for the 22nd Amendment, he would have sought a third term. “You’d have had to throw me out,” he said."

I believe that ot only do the Clinton's feel "entitled to a third (and fourth) term, but they don't think that the 22nd Amendment applies to them.  If Hillary were to be elected to office, would it be another "co-presidency?"  Frankly, I have been so turned off by both of them, that I am appalled at the idea.  Clinton was arguably a good President for the 1990's but I want our nation to go forward, not backward. 

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/52.html

Happy Easter and thank you Susan for the great video.

I have a question, a little off topic, but I wondered if any of you have heard similar reports. In the past week I have had a couple family get togethers for Easter. At these events, were two Marines and a soldier, all of whom have spent time in Iraq, but in three seperate places. They told me that they had occasional access to television news, but the televisions were all set to Fox news and locked so the channel could not be changes. Is Fox the "Official Sponsor" of the war in Iraq? or is this just plain censorship? Has anyone heard similar stories?

Spirited Clinton adviser tells the New York Times that New Mexican governor's backing Obama during Holy Week was "appropriate" and "ironic" because it was like Judas selling out Jesus.

"Mr. Richardson's endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic," Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

can you imagine the outrage if an Obama advisor said this about any of Hillary's superdelegates? 

john nelson - I believe they started restricting the tv channels available in 2003 or 2004 - I remember discussions about it here on the blog.  they also limited what sites could be accessed on the internet, but I'm not sure if they're still doing any of this.  guess those guys would know.

can you imagine the outrage if an Obama advisor said this about any of Hillary's superdelegates?

=================

Yes, there is a creeping double standard.  Obama learned to adjust to this kind of stuff early in life, according to his first book.  It is the same kind of double standard of racial attitudes and remarks that were prevalent when he was growing up, in high school and college.  He would hear nasty racial remarks, and expressions by white kids/adults, who would say "can't take a joke?" or "what ja do that for?" when he punched him.

Obama's  adjusted insight makes that incongruity old hat, and doesn't upset him as much as it does us observers.

"anti-miscenegation" =  "anti-miscegenation"

Fred, there is no evidence that mangabey (green monkey) tissue was used for the polio virus trial. The evidence that exists (a vial of the original vaccine) has macaque kidney cells in it, not mangabey.

You are correct that macaques can be infected with HIV, but what caused HIV in humans was "viral sex" between two different strains of SIV, one from green monkeys and one from chimps.

Please take a minute to read the link I posted. It's really very comprehensive and interesting.

-- volney

I heard lots of rumors several years ago that the Soviets did experiments in their weapon labs with retroviruses. The rumors had something to do apartheid.

to do s/b to do with

can you imagine the outrage if an Obama advisor said this about any of Hillary's superdelegates? 

Jo,

IMO many of these outrageous comments by the Clintons' surrogates are meant to provoke at attack by the Obama campaign and get them down in the mud with them.

In most instances, where these surrogates do not actually attack Obama personally or his issues, the Obama campaign ignores it.  Staying above it all just shows the difference in the quality and class of these two campaigns.

Fred, there is no evidence that mangabey (green monkey) tissue was used for the polio virus trial. The evidence that exists (a vial of the original vaccine) has macaque kidney cells in it, not mangabey

======================

My sources contradict that.  It has references, which I gave you.  Where are your references or links for your claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Healt...

john nelson,

One doesn't have to go overseas for that kind of thing:)) The YMCA which I have been a member of for 15 years installed seven TV screens up above the treadmills, bikes, etc. One of the TVs, the only one in this room, was locked into FOX and one in the others rooms as well. The others five were a variety of other programs without news.

I objected in writing many times but nothing happened until I began complaining loudly and verbally to the staff. One of the FOX channels in one room was changed to CNN and another was added in the other room. I had some backing on this because the county they are in has more Dems than Repubs.

You can't just let these things stand, one must object about the fairness of it all until things change. Although I recognize being in the military one does not often have that privilege.

10.

Annilow
Sun, 03/23/08

....I would never say God damn anything b/c I just wouldn't but I must say I do feel that loss of innocent belief in my country...
----------------

Good riddance..., lol, better later than never and more to follow with long, painful (but promising and happy at the same time) way ahead.

NOT THIS TIME/////

Supporters at DU are saying "not this time", regarding the networks repetition of the Wright comment, and are joining in with Dailykos.

How different things might have been if we had done the same thing in '04.

I say "not this time, and out with the last time." DFA needs to join the other groups and obliterate that kind of character assassination for good. Bury Pastor Wright's words and Howards scream. Trippi just let it keep playing, and we see that doesn't work.
Not this time, and out with last time.
HDQTRS?....Let's get together and stop it!

volney,

It's a good point about the media problems.

It may be more of a problem for those in that corporate media who see Obama's outstanding possibilities but still must take their orders from the big guys.

Even for the corporates though, it may be a toss-up between supporting the conservatives who support them, or the Olbermanns who increase their bottom lines.

Fred at 29/30, in my first post I posted a link to a source where everything is sourced and footnoted.

Maybe you can't see my link? If not, let me know and I will cut and paste some of it.

-- volney

Title IX Awards Raise Colleges' Bias Liability By Viv Bernstein

A string of jury awards in Title IX cases at Fresno State, part of California's state university system, should serve as a warning sign for other schools. But women's sports advocates say the legal battle is far from over, as a case in Florida shows.

(WOMENSENEWS)--Amid complaints a few years ago from a women's volleyball coach at California State University, Fresno, that her team wasn't receiving equal treatment with men's programs at the school, some members of the athletic department decided to have a party.

In April 2000 administrators hung a banner in an office, complete with pictures of female athletes with cutouts of male heads attached to them. And they sipped drinks under the banner that read: "Ugly Women Athletes Day."

Weighty payouts from lawsuits based on Title IX--the 1972 law that bans discrimination on the basis of gender in educational institutions that receive federal funds--have since followed. ...full post: http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?a...

12.
rae hart
Sun, 03/23/08

Reply to this

Is everyone going to be talking about Rev Wright forever?

Just hark back to how many times the "Dean Scream" has been played, and by media that know it was manufactured.

I'd like to see them play McCain's "Bomb Iran" and a few other of his idiotic utterances--and his market tour in Bhagdad, a few thousand times, but that's not how our "liberal media" do it.

4:30pm

This Sports Illustrated story was on ESPN this morning.

Special to ESPN.com

Grandson of Jonestown founder is making a name for himself By Jon Fish and Chris Connelly: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/stor...

25.

volney simmons
Sun, 03/23/08

Fred, there is no evidence that mangabey (green monkey) tissue was used for the polio virus trial. The evidence that exists (a vial of the original vaccine) has macaque kidney cells in it, not mangabey

8.
volney simmons
Sun, 03/23/08

....so far the only evidence that exists for that project contains macaque cells, not chimpanzee cells, and macaques do not carry any virus similar to the chimp virus that appears to have mutated into HIV.

====================

My sources have also found (with references) that there is a number of sources from a number of different monkeys that could have passed on the AIDS strain that is HIV.  Many researcher have shown many primates can carry these viruses. You are trying to restrict the source to one monkey and then say that monkey was not used for the vaccine trials, my referenced book say it is not true that one monkey  carried the viruses, both the green monkey and macaque carried it, but the green monkey was used for the vaccine, because the green monkey did not show symptoms at the time and appeared healthy.

The mangabey monkey was in the "cut butcher" hypothesis [your original idea], which seem impossible for such a great epidemic to spread so rapidly.

I have four pages of heavily referenced information on this subject

I guess I feel sorry for those who still believe in a Creator who would damn any of His/Her creations. After all, as the Creator, S/He could have created them any way S/He wished. . . .

Huge voter turnout in November 1992 altered Chicago's electoral landscape — and raised a new political star: a 31-year-old lawyer named Barack Obama

Obama/Boxer

I'd like to see them play McCain's "Bomb Iran" and a few other of his idiotic utterances--and his market tour in Bhagdad, a few thousand times, but that's not how our "liberal media" do it

Me too John, but it ain't gonna happen.

This guy keeps switching sides--

As the war in Iraq heads toward its two year anniversary, General Merrill (Tony) McPeak is not optimistic about a positive outcome. In part two of our interview with General McPeak, he responds to Senator McCain’s recent comments that suggest America might have troops in Iraq for decades and that the public would accept such a scenario if casualties are brought to a minimum.

General McPeak: Sure, we’ve been in Korea since the 1950’s, almost a half century and we’ve been in Germany since 1945 and we’ve been in Japan. The American people have shown they are willing to station troops overseas but they haven’t shown they are willing to conduct a 50-year counter-insurgency. In fact, Vietnam lasted ten years and what we ran out of there was time. The American people ran out of patience. Marshall said that no democracy can fight a ten-year war. I’m not sure he’s accurate but the fuse started burning on Vietnam after Walter Cronkite came back from visiting and said ‘your government is not telling you the truth about what is going on.’

  This country has a moral and economic debt to pay  African-Americans for centuries of abuse, violation of basic human rights, and unpaid labor, and the right wing act as if  African Americans owe white people something.

Fred, I'm sorry you can't see my link to read -- there are many pages of info there also. I would like to cut/paste all of it but there's that copyright thing so I'll just do this part:

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

The Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) theory

Could production of the oral polio vaccine have contributed to the spread of HIV?

Some other rather controversial theories have contended that HIV was transferred iatrogenically (i.e. via medical interventions). One particularly well-publicised idea is that polio vaccines played a role in the transfer.

In his book, The River, the journalist Edward Hooper suggests that HIV can be traced to the testing of an oral polio vaccine called Chat, given to about a million people in the Belgian Congo, Ruanda and Urundi in the late 1950s. To be reproduced, live polio vaccine needs to be cultivated in living tissue, and Hooper's belief is that Chat was grown in kidney cells taken from local chimps infected with SIVcmz. This, he claims, would have resulted in the contamination of the vaccine with chimp SIV, and a large number of people subsequently becoming infected with HIV-1.

Many people have contested Hooper's theories and insist that local chimps were not infected with a strain of SIVcmz that is closely linked to HIV. Furthermore, the oral administration of the vaccine would seem insufficient to cause infection in most people (SIV/HIV needs to get directly into the bloodstream to cause infection - the lining of the mouth and throat generally act as good barriers to the virus).4

In February 2000 the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia (one of the original manufacturers of the Chat vaccine) announced that it had discovered in its stores a phial of polio vaccine that had been used as part of the program. The vaccine was subsequently analysed and in April 2001 it was announced that no trace had been found of either HIV or chimpanzee SIV.5 A second analysis confirmed that only macaque monkey kidney cells, which cannot be infected with SIV or HIV, were used to make Chat.6 While this is just one phial of many, it means that the OPV theory remains unproven.

The fact that the OPV theory accounts for just one (group M) of several different groups of HIV also suggests that transferral must have happened in other ways too, as does the fact that HIV seems to have existed in humans before the vaccine trials were ever carried out. More about when HIV came into being can be found below.

4. Cohen, John (October 2000) "The Hunt for the Origin of AIDS" The Atlantic, Vol. 286 No. 4, p. 88-104
5. Blancou, P. et al. (2001) "Polio vaccine samples not linked to AIDS" Nature, Vol. 410, p. 1045-1046
6. Berry, N. et al. (2001) "Vaccine safety: Analysis of oral polio vaccine CHAT stocks." Nature, Vol. 410, p. 1046-1047

-- volney

This isn't news but indicates a trend that Obama is bouncing back (Gallup tracking poll from 3/22/08)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105529/Gallup...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/23/r...

Richardson: 'I am very loyal to the Clintons'

(CNN) -- Facing fire from some fellow Democrats for his decision to endorse Sen. Barack Obama, Gov. Bill Richardson said Sunday he still considers himself loyal to the family that helped make his political career.

"I am very loyal to the Clintons. I served under President Clinton. But I served well. And I served the country well. And he gave me that opportunity," Richardson told "Fox News Sunday."
"But you know ... it shouldn't just be Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton," he said.
------------------

Wow, thanks Mr. Richardson after 20 years of such “Bush, Clinton, Bush” years he finally noticed there is something not exactly right with it.

Hopefully next he’ll be able to notice politicians who serve about the same (or even longer) amount of time as “professional representatives” (including himself, lol) also not exactly right.
Hopefully next he’ll able to notice his own perverted logic when he announces his loyalty “to the Clintons” while serving as people’s representative.
Hopefully the discovery of truth has began for our “professionals as well”..., lol.

Fred at 29/30, in my first post I posted a link to a source where everything is sourced and footnoted

========================

I THINK MY SOURCE AND YOURS REFER TO DIFFERENT VACCINE TRIALS. There was more than one experimental trial. 

"In his book, The River, the journalist Edward Hooper suggests that HIV can be traced to the testing of an oral polio vaccine called Chat, given to about a million people in the Belgian Congo, Ruanda and Urundi in the late 1950s. ....Many people have contested Hooper's theories"

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm 

My source refers to  a study  "Lederle" study that was given to  320,000 infants and children

The polio virus was a live virus.  Researcher could not explain how they could kill other viruses without killing the polio virus.  

The live polio oral vaccine was used in repeated monthly doses in 1974 to treat recurrent genital herpes.  This could have been how it seeded in evolved in the homosexual community. 

There are many question and fewer answers.  I have never proposed this on the blog before so your insinuation that I bring it up now is just "anti-vaccine" is wrong.  The probability that we will not know the truth any time soon because government, media, medicine and industry have a tremendous stake in promoting vaccines, is not unreasonable, and not biased.

It is not a conspiracy theory.  It is just a question of so many people avoiding answers to inconvenient questions, and skewing research to validate predetermined claims.

Susan Rowe thanks for article on Jim Jones grandson.

 Furthermore, the oral administration of the vaccine would seem insufficient to cause infection in most people (SIV/HIV needs to get directly into the bloodstream to cause infection - the lining of the mouth and throat generally act as good barriers to the virus).4

==================

A quote from your source.

This is obviously nonsense.  It is ludicrous to believe people cannot be effected by a virus by orally absorbing it - even if this were true, then how does  the vaccine (a live attenuated polio virus) get to work, if it is not absorbed??????

3996

new thread

3996

20.

FRED from Ashland OR
Sun, 03/23/08

...This country has a moral and economic debt to pay African-Americans for centuries of abuse, violation of basic human rights, and unpaid labor.
------------------

Oh boy, I wouldn't suggest to rush with the “economic debt” and “unpaid labor” themes regarding African American.
It is not exclusively “race related”...lol.

  This country has a moral and economic debt to pay  African-Americans for centuries of abuse, violation of basic human rights, and unpaid labor, and the right wing act as if  African Americans owe white people something.