Whether the Dem nominee be Clinton or Obama, either is light years ahead and a better choice for Pres in 08 than a 72 year old Sen John McBu$hCo. McCain clearly doesn't have a good grip on the Sunni-Shia situation in Iraq. I was prepared to support either Obama or Clinton in 08. However, Sen Clinton and her kitchen sink strategy is truly doing damage to the Democratic Party and its chances of success in Nov. 08. Obama is the front runner and an odds on favorite to win the nomination at this point. A Democrat winning back the White House in 08 is top priority to most Dem voters. Team Clinton is showing it's no team player where that's concerned.      J.M.-in N.Y.

Where the Money Leads

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The big givers include Milwaukee's Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Smith Richardson Foundation, and the Scaife, Koch, Coors, and Walton family foundations. They alone have poured $28 million into the American Enterprise Institute. That kind of money buys a lot of "experts."

With coordinated giving on a grand scale, they've led the way in funding a movement to radically alter the social, legal, educational, media, political and religious landscapes of the United States, building a supply-side machinery for implementing a hard-right agenda.

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Hey, DEAN's first!
That's good commentary, Tom, thank you.
Jane

The DLCers Daschle and Durbin were the primary promoters of Obama weren't they? I'm sure that BO's support of Duckworth was a sort of initiation test, also joining the DLC. They had to make sure he wasn't some far out lefty, like one of us.

That won't stop me from voting for BO, but Hillary is another story.

It looks more and more like the Super D's will pick the nominee. The only way to make sure they go with BO, and think that he can win the General, is for everyone to let Clinton know that we will NOT support HILLARY if she is the nominee. We should do this however we plan to vote. If enough of us tell them we won't vote for her, the Supers will drop her in a minute.

4:22 PM EDT

hmm, well, again it leads me to wonder if Obama's supporters or foolish or stupid

...

+++

Got to love that civility of your's, Charles.

Tom, nice diary.

*******************

Yes, a concerted effort by a few to say, "let's make a concerted effort to tell them we will absolutely not vote for_____________".


Here are the statistics fro the latest national poll.

on if their candidate is not the nominee:....(pertinent to Tom's post)

19 pct obama supporters say they will vote for
McCain, 20 pct Clinton says they'll vote for McCain.....3 pct Obama supporters say they won't vote, 13 pct Clinton voters say they won't vote.

Guess I'm the lone wolf here, I will not vote for her, ever.

rae wrote "Guess I'm the lone wolf here, I will not vote for her, ever."

That's your prerogative, but I would ask this in all sincerity.  If Clinton is the nominee, given your support for Obama, what do you feel is your best option and do you feek confident it's the right thing to do? 

Nice diary, Tom-swine beneath contempt indeed.

If y'all have avoided Tristan & Isolde so far, the formerly fat lady (Deborah Voigt) is going to sing soon -- the 'love death' that ends the opera. Maybe in 10 or 20 minutes?

Also if you haven't had enuf about Argentina I put a trip report up at Frommer's.
http://tinyurl.com/26b7ba

Tom,

I can say with all honesty I will feel no regret voting against Clinton.  I will not vote for McCain either.  Nor will I vote Nader.  Hopefully there will be a Green candidate.

I say this with all respect to you.  I so enjoy your posts.

I've said it before I will not vote for anyone who voted for the Iraq war.  If I did I could not live with myself.

You are not the lone wolf, but let the Supers know that. They will have to take that into consideration when they try to figure which one will beat Mc. We shouldn't all wear our hearts on our sleeve, let them know we're not in their pocket. We can always reassess on election day.

We need to let THEM know we won't vote for her.

The Clinton legacy - Make it difficult for any other Democrat other than the two of them to get into power, example Dean when he was running for President, Gore when he was running for President, the people running for Congress in the 1990s, I don't think they were overly helpful to Kerry, and now Obama.

rae wrote "Hopefully there will be a Green candidate."

I appreciate your candor and support your right to your opinion.  Do you feel any trepidiation  that Democrats who desert the Democratic candidate in 2004, due to hard feelings from the primary campaign may, in doing so, thoughtlessly or unintentionally deliver the White House to the Republicans for four more long years?

I'll be honest.  My gravest fear is a reprise of 2000.  I feel so strongly that good, left leaning liberals who supported Bill Bradley in the primaries did not desert Gore in the general election, no matter what their feelings were during the contest for the nomination.  I salute them for it.

Fogerty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKcl7MTbH...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkazf7znl...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQGistoO...

Tom,  I so agree with your diary post. I will vote for Hillary or Obama. I will not vote under any circumstances for McCain. I am not a republican.  When we support one candidate over another, we  don't have to villify the other.

There's enough hate in this world.  I don't like to see it show up here and it has on some occasions.

Tom,

I've wondered about the 2004 vote before.  I honestly cannot say.  But in all honesty to you I think Clinton would be a disaster.  Guess I'll get hell saying that.  I'm a people voter, I am not a party girl.  Well sometimes I'm a party girl.

Ooops that doesn't look too good.  Not that kind of party girl.

a HOWARDLY to Fred for his reporting of Obama's Oregon event

very well done

we had excelllent work done at our platform committee today too,huge turnout, hard work, great meal, you have to love it when a plan comes together despite my pre-game gitters

rae wrote "But in all honesty to you I think Clinton would be a disaster."

I can't tell you she won't be.  However, I am convinced beyond question that McCain will be, and that it is inconceiveable a Clinton administration could ever approach the enormity of four more years of Republican arrogance, immorality, and mismanagement in the White House.

Phil wrote "we had excelllent work done at our platform committee today too,huge turnout, hard work, great meal, you have to love it when a plan comes together despite my pre-game gitters."

Great report.  You must have been spared the buffet bill if so many showed up after all.

Tom 

veggies,club sandwich, potato salad, fruit salad, drinks for $7 a head with accomodations made for the extras at the last minute and we kept working as subcommittees as we had our meal  $238 on my credit card and $231 in pile in front of me as folks paid up and five hours of use in a party room of a busy restaurant

I was thinking "am I short one?" and then duh it hit me, the person who hadn't coughed up the ante was me lol

5:52 PM EST

Well, it looks like Charles Harker is a "one hit (and run) wonder". Makes one just pooping in (err, popping in) on the blog and then doesn't stay around to interact.

Hmhh, let me look up the last time he did that.

5:57 PM EST

But I will say that even if he is, he'd still be better than Bush..

Recommend 

I mean, something has got to be done. The problem, as I see it, is that if John McCain wins the presidency, there may have been a massive turnout of republican voters. This could led to the dems losing congress again. If so this country is in a boat load of trouble, there's no way to financially sustain the wars Bush started, but we might be stuck with a government unwilling to change course. We tried putting ourselves in power but it has done nothing, the congressional leaders do nothing but roll over for this madman. We must do something to restore order, to get back control of the country t the people, who are the ones suffering the brunt of the consequences of this objevtiveless war.

Recommend 

tom gets promoted!!  Always nice to see one of the consistent group get the headline!!  I read that post a couple of days ago and thought it was very well written.  Congrats.  Listening to Alison by Elvis Costello, great tune.  Have a great Easter.  and for the secular among us have a great Sunday.

Very good thread post, Tom.

I know that you and other regulars are familiar with my position. If Obama is the nominee, I can swallow my misgivings and vote for him.

If it's Hillary, OMG, hypocrisy, outright lies, big dawg's smears of Obama's patriotism, essentially McCain's position on Iraq, Iran, and a generally neocon (=DLC) view of the world.

I won't vote for Ralph, but I'll look hard at the Green nominee

18:10

Preview James McMurtry and the Heartless Bastards'  Just Us Kids  

Effin' useless "blogware."

Just Us Kids 

Cynthia McKinney needs to get on state ballots (Greenies)--as does Nadar (I).

...and be funded, to boot.

Ain't gonna happen.

Cynthia McKinney needs to get on state ballots (Greenies)--as does Nadar (I).

Mainefem darlin, it's Nader,  N-A-D-E-R

We had a good turnout today for our delegate caucus. Over 20 committee members showed up for our little town...selected were 7 Obama delegates plus one alternate, 6 Hillary delegates plus one alternate...no food like Phil had though (thanks for the idea). Even though Brattleboro is just 20 miles to the south of Bellows Falls and might very well be the darkest blue spot in all of the USA, Bellows Falls has quite a few conservative Democrats and we just eeked out a win for Obama in the primary. Most all the Hillary supporters at today's caucus were the ones that opposed the town buying the hydro facility in our town when it was for sale a few years ago...duh?
Our county chair is the alternate for Obama and he has a 8 passenger van that we will transform into the Obama Bus for the State Convention...I can tell already this is going to be a hoot.
Today the sub-committee for Obama did say to deliver the message at the State Convention that we want our super delegates to represent the voters wishes...none of this I think this one is a better candidate crap.

Wisconsin is kicking a little K-State butt, did Duke win?

good work Reed

good process guarantees a good product

our sub-committees were chosing the best County Platform planks and melding them into a District Platform

 and were all just Democratic Party activists not Clinton or Obama folk (means the language will be pulling them toward the exit in Iraq)

Thanks Phil...there's quite a bit to learn for someone who skipped many social studies classes back in high school...had other things to do don't ya know ; ) Obama's not the driving force for me, Dean was the inspiration but not the driving force...that bonehead in the WH and his cronies are what activated this old f*rt and McCain is part of that crowd.

They both need to be funded (heavily); and on state ballots, John.

 Fine in a non-battleground red state.

Ain't gonna happen nationwide.

Greenies can't "organize" electoral diddly squat...too funny. 

 Obama has the delegate count (superdelegates, nonwithstanding).

 What's w/all the angst?

 Superdelegates up for election will die (downticket)--as will state parties, if they betray their base.

 Esp. African Americans & newly registered voters sitting on their hands.

Hell, I never "fall in  line." 

None of us did so during the ME caucuses--despite what the "pundits" predicted while "polling."

Gov. Baldacci (Clinton superdelegate) is despised here (stuck w/him until 2010).

Cutting the shit out of MaineCare is what  DLCers do. 

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