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R.I.P. Howard Metzenbaum
Former Ohio Democratic Senator Howard Metzenbaum has died at the age of 90. Read the full obituary from the New York Times:
An unapologetic liberal, Metzenbaum helped pass measures to strengthen workers and consumers' rights, including a bill to provide employees with 60 days' notice of plant closings. He also promoted the Brady bill, which mandated a waiting period when buying a handgun.
Danny
Communications Director
Spitzer is a perfect example of a man who people voted for in high numbers and loved (at least at first); a man who lived an outwardly exemplary life and was admired for his prosecution of criminals - a man even some here on the blog thought would be good prez or vp material.
He's a prime example of how people can mis-judge another human being, and then react crestfallen and shocked when that human does not live up to the expectations of so many.
Perhaps there's a message here from the political gods. Perhaps we should listen with something other than our ears and see with something other than our eyes.
***********
IMO, several of you are spot on. To not vote for the dem nominee, whoever it is, is the end of the country. Period. When hatred of a candidate is stronger than love of country, something's terribly wrong. There's a huge difference between the two dems and McC. Huge!!
Who opined that blacks and progressives would not vote for Hillary?
46.
*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 03/13/08
"She's an iconoclast."======
Camille Paglia is a crank. She has a small following of cranks.
================================================
Camille artist and satirist, and whacky, I admit, but I stumbled across this article and have give her much credit for excellent articulation, word-smithing, and very funny analysis of the illusion of Hill's followers. Ironically, Hillary labels Obama follower's as suffering under illusions, while Hillary's own illusions are fully appreciated in this article.
Paglia's admiration and description of Obama is well put as well, and her trademark criticism of the modern feminist movement is the kind of heresy that will result in reformation.
Here's the link again
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/03/12/red_phone/index.html
click on "enter Salon"
3:24 PM EST
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/89-61188.aspx
Subject: News From the Front Line RE:Obama
DarthAmerica 3/10/2008 4:12:07 PM
He is viewed in a very positive way by most troops.
...
there is a vibe that a lot of troops want to vote for him. Demographically, its hard to say how things break down racially. I know some older White Soldiers who won't vote for him period and others who would. Black and Latino soldiers seem to favor him. Women too.
...
"He is viewed in a very positive way by most troops."
They can't wait to be re-deployed to new scenery - Afghanistan, Pakistan or maybe Iran..Syria?
Sorry, couldn't resist, plus BO has said that we have to "win" the "war" in Afghanistan. You know he said that... don't blast me!~ Is he planning on negotiating our *enemies* to death? :-)
Devil made me do that, and now your buttons will go off..mirrors can be annoying, can't they be?
Now gone, to avoid the slings and arrows of rotten fruit throwing. Do you want quotes? I've got them. LOL
DarthAmerica 3/10/2008 4:12:07 PM
He is viewed in a very positive way by most troops.======
rdorgan, surely your are not basing your assessment on the link that you posted?
Seems that the poster DarthAmerica is one of a few with positive comments re. Obama. Many of them are liberal haters as you might expect on a military blog. Many pining for Ronald Reagan and disparaging JFK.
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - The head of Florida's Democratic Party said Thursday the proposed vote-by-mail presidential primary is unlikely to go forward because of strong opposition and concerns about conducting the vote. There's a serious question over whether the state could legally verify the signatures of a privately run election.
Interview with the Vamp
Why Camille Paglia hates affirmative action, defends Rush Limbaugh, and respects Ayn Rand
http://www.reason.com/news/printer/29737...
She is a crank with no credibility.
A university professor is expected to have credibility.
Repost from last thread
Love the logic, don't believe in anybody because you will be disappointed. Look for the invisible which only a few can see, and those few know what others don't. Huh? Doesn't make any sense to me.
We should vote for HIllary because we can see that she lies, that ambition trumps ethics, fairness, sound judgment, clear thinking. We know her faults: she is mean minded, petty, authoritarian, willing to punish those who disagree with her, is in collusion with the corporate/lobbyist/government hegemony, and panders. She mismanages a campaign, takes credit for international relations when she mostly was present as the wife of a president, and is willing to use racism, subterfuge, and innuendo to decimate an opponent and those who disagree with her.
Vote for Hillary because you've already been disappointed!
cC has linked to an old but provocative and eye opening interview with Paglia that I encourage people to read without preconceived ideas on the subject.
I personally see the value of political commentary by writers who invokes the influence of the Dolls on the rock star dress code in the 1970's, as she does in this excerpt from her essay "No Law in the Arena: A Pagan Theory of Sexuality":
"But the sevenites gay scene immediately turned away from the drag spirit that gave birth to it: a macho clone look took over the men's bars, and queens were scorned as an embarrassing reminder of a time when gayness meant effiminancy. Paradoxically, drag was more acceptable in heterosexual rock music, then in its decadent sci-fi phase, typified by Alice Cooper, Kiss, and David Bowie, whose roots, via the New York Dolls, were in Andy Warhol's charismatic Superstars, whom I worshipped."
Vamps & Tramps, p 68.
"cC has linked to an old but provocative and eye opening interview with Paglia..."================
oh, yes, she's been talking for a couple of decades now. A crank then, a crank now. and yes, she has a small following of cranks. Many conservatives have embraced her. They see her as the anti-feminist.
cC wrote "Many conservatives have embraced her. They see her as the anti-feminist."
The irony, easily lost, apparently, is that, as the article you cited indicates, "Despite the detractors who deride her as a conservative antifeminist, Paglia is clearly a woman of the left--How many conservatives use 'white middle-class' as a term of derision?--and an unreconstructed advocate of women's achievement and independence."
Camille speaking: "I'm outside the establishment completely, and no one can co-opt me. They can't get to me. Because I don't apply for grants, they can't punish me like that. And I appear out of nowhere! They think they can avoid having to deal with me, never mentioning me and so forth, and then all of a sudden, the students invite me. And there I am! And I come on campus, and I name names on the podium. And then I leave and create disorder, and they all have to deal with it for weeks. It's great! It's wonderful!"====
Darn right she doesn't apply for those grants. She couldn't write one if her life depended on it. I've seen her interviewed many times, I've read some of her, ummm, "work". Very inconsistent thinker, lacks intellectual rigor, contradicts herself repeatedly in interviews.
Camille Paglia: A crank.
==================
"Despite the detractors who deride her as a conservative antifeminist, Paglia is clearly a woman of the left--How many conservatives use 'white middle-class' as a term of derision?--and an unreconstructed advocate of women's achievement and independence."
===================
One of her favorite memes is that she defies stereotypes. Again, I've seen her contradict herself numerous times over the years. Mostly, she seems to enjoy making provocative statements, but falls apart, becomes quite shrill when challenged. Camille Paglia: A crank.
Afgan is one we had to fight. The folks that planed the 9/11 were there and they essentially were the government. If Bush had stayed there and gotten bin Laden then left then no problem.
But that didn't happen and our position in Afgan is becoming untenable. The UN is there which leads a little credence to what is going on. But what is it the troops can do? Are they going to invade Pakistan? Burn the poppy fields? Wander around the country side like lost souls looking for bad guys? We couldn’t tell them from the good guys anyway. Note, guys is a pejorative.
Obama said this last August…
"Let me make this clear," Obama said. "There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again . . . If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."
Bush, he said, squandered national and international unity in a reckless war in Iraq that has compromised American values, undermined U.S. influence and left the country less secure.
"Because of a war in Iraq that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, we are now less safe than we were before 9/11," Obama said.
He said he would not use nukes in Iran or Pakistan…that is a relief.
He has been missing Afgan hearings and has never visited the country. He needs to step his involvement up.
add the torture language to FISA if he vetoes again
Well cC has certainly stamped her foot, but I don't think a litany of complaints and taunts manages to stand up as legitimate criticism.
Howard Metzenbaum = Good Guy! RIP: you deserve it, Howard!
putzCo and anyone who continues their policies = VERY BAD guys!
******
And Camille Paglia is indeed a crank.
******
*Just passin' through* (one of my younger son's production companies had that title) and winding down for the day.
*******
This news is also not good, I'm afraid. Thanks again, putzCo. Worst. Administration. Ever.
EVER!
And now off.
=================
Dollar's tumble rattles markets
Larry Elliott, economics editor
Graeme Wearden and Katie Allen
guardian.co.uk
Thursday March 13 2008
Equity markets wobbled today on fears over a weak dollar, credit market turmoil and impending recession, but jitters subsided somewhat in late trading and the Dow recovered slightly by 6pm GMT.
Markets in Asia, Europe and the US have all been sold off over the last 24 hours. The dollar is also coming under significant pressure, not helped by more bad news from the US economy today, this time on high street spending. Meanwhile oil and gold have shot up to record highs on the back of the weakening US currency.
The dollar fell below 100 yen for the first time in 12 years today and hit a new record low against the euro amid fears in currency markets that the US financial system is vulnerable to the recession spreading from the crisis-hit housing sector.
[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/...
BO has said that we have to "win" the "war" in Afghanistan
He obviously hasn't read Afghan history, or he wouldn't have made such a stupid statement.
Going all the way back to Ghengis Kahn and Alexander the Great, Afghans have successfully (and successively) expelled invaders and occupiers. There's no reason to expect the current occupation will be an exception.
4:16 pm
Hi Tom. Sitting here near the 'puter. Watching Bloomberg...commenting on the blog. No foot-stamping:)
Other women have spoken on the blog today, Tom. They seem to agree that she's a crank. I'd guess that they've watched her over the years, perhaps recall her commentary on Anita Hill, maybe saw her go bananas during interviews in the 90's.
Same assessment: a crank.
Nothing foot-stomping about it. That's just my assessment and the apparent assessment of other women here on the blog. {{shrug}}
cC wrote "No foot-stamping:)"
I'm surprised. Paglia has written lovingly of her full and rich upbringing in an Italian-American household, and its influence on her ideas.
"I'm surprised. Paglia has written lovingly of her full and rich upbringing in an Italian-American household, and its influence on her ideas."====
umm...ok.
cC wrote "umm...ok."
Of course. I'm not taking a poll. No one's required to be a fan of Camille Paglia, and I'm the first to concede that becoming one won't be the easiest of undertakings. Thinking back, I don't see how I could have expected a different reaction.
From a male perspective - Camille Paglia is a crank, indeed!
Paz wrote "From a male perspective - Camille Paglia is a crank, indeed!"
What a revelation. Having read many of your posts, I never once suspected that you were a male.
Camille: "But the sevenites gay scene immediately turned away from the drag spirit that gave birth to it: a macho clone look took over the men's bars, and queens were scorned as an embarrassing reminder of a time when gayness meant effiminancy."===
Tom, clearly, she was nowhere near San Francisco during this time period....the HEY DAY of drag in the city. The drag scene still thrives in San Francisco. We still have the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the big coronation of the SF Drag Queen and her court...still very much a part of the San Francisco scene.
ok, done with Camille.
I think the Democrats should run Dennis Kucinich against George Voinovich next time. Voinovich is worst than Santorum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Metz...
...Metzenbaum took a particular interest in antitrust and consumer protection issues, often threatening to repeal the exemption from antitrust laws given to Major League Baseball. Since his retirement, however, the issue has gone largely unaddressed. Metzenbaum became well-known for his service on the Senate Judiciary Committee, particularly because of his dedicated efforts to keep stringent antitrust laws and his pro-choice stance on abortion. ...
...Metzenbaum had a cameo in the 1993 film Dave.
I liked the movie Dave. Kevin Kline is a really good actor.
Dave: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_%28fil...
Tom Bearse
Thu, 03/13/08
Reply to this
cC wrote "umm...ok."
Of course. I'm not taking a poll. No one's required to be a fan of Camille Paglia, and I'm the first to concede that becoming one won't be the easiest of undertakings.
====================================
Well put.
I am not a Paglia fan, but I often enjoy her insight and word-smithing, when I come across it, as I used to enjoy that of William F. Buckley, her total personality antithesis.
She provokes, and one often tires of the same old boil-plate cliches, positions and safe positions we all share. Hidden in her often-contradictory, off-the-war tirades are nestled truths many of us harbor in the basements and attics of our consciousness but somehow never seem to dust off and observe.
This article on the Clintons is one of her better works. She does contradict herself from the present. I am sure we all do, because time have changed so much.
cChalfonte is good at labeling and name-calling, but knowing her from this blog, I am not surprized that she demeans an excellent article, but can only take cheap shots at the author, who has a history of willingly making herself clearly vulnerable to criticism from every corner of the political spectrum.
Huron John
given that history and especially the much more recent history of the Russians, I would have thought we would have been smarter than we have been.
Huron John
Thanks for the funnies.
Well, fred, I'm not surprised in the least that the resident crank is promoting the works of ..... a crank here on the blog.
Kismet, lol.
The CIA should have never taught the Afghans how to grow poppies.
The problem in Afgan is what is the mission?
There has to be a reason and goal for troops to be involved; or for this country to be involved.
Just "win" isn't good enough. Win what? Try to see how many dead civilians can be tallied up?
The Pushtin never loose to violence isn't the answer to whatever the question is.
If the desire is to get bin Laden and his henchmen then the smart way is to bribe Pakistan into giving him up. Rebuild the infrastructure there. Build roads, schools, hospitals and power plants. Tell them how much more help they give us if the hand over al Queda.
It will take awhile and cost a lot of money...So what as we have wasted 5 years and a ton of money already. At least no one dies.
But this isn't very macho. You can't put your Rambo headbaand on and charge into battle throwing dollar bills like bullets. We gotta kill folks because that is the American way.
I cannot figure out what the military is doing in Afgan now anyway. There is very little news except for body counts.
Ah yes, pre-Voinovich, there was Howard Metzenbaum, Gov. Gilligan, Sen. Stephen Young, Rep.Charles Vanik, and Dennis Kucinich.
That was when our elected officials represented us in Ohio. even sticking their necks out for the ERA. Sen. Young even presented my poll that I and some helpers took on the Viet War which differed from a national poll taken soon after by only one point.
I cannot figure out what the military is doing in Afgan now anyway. There is very little news except for body counts.====
dog, do you think we should leave Afghanistan? If so, should we do anything to keep the Taliban from taking over?
Interested in your opinion.
From a thread with a discussion of Camille Paglia over a year ago. I should have known:
"Ha, ha. jc quoted Molly Ivins on what an asshole Camille Paglia is. People do react violently to her. She's kind of unscripted. I love reading her because she's outrageous. She's all id and no superego. She loves Madonna and David Bowie. Come on, what do you want?"
Could the Dem rust belt problem be the demise of the unions? When Dems had the chance, they never stepped up and helped them out. Add the outsourcing of jobs which Dems never opposed and you have a populace that sees little difference between the candidates. I am surprised they went for Hillary as she has done nothing to help the middle class out. Obama has some history there and should do better then McCain.
Susan Rowe....
That is so funny, if it weren't really sad.
But Afghanistan is our money garden for extra-curricular activities of the CIA. Shen did I get so cynical?
*** cChalfonte***
Thu, 03/13/08
Reply to this
Well, fred, I'm not surprised in the least that the resident crank is promoting the works of ..... a crank here on the blog.
Kismet, lol
======================
Monumental comment by the resident name-caller of this blog. I never suggested that Paglia was anything good or bad, but simply the writer of this article, which is really fun an funny to read,but you're such an ideological grouch, you never miss an opportunity to express your venom. Why don't you comment on the article itself, instead of the author?
here it is again, it's never too late to sit back and enjoy, grumpy
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/03/12/red_phone/index.html
then click on "enter salon"
Clinton is Losing: from Markos
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/13/...
she's losing in every possible category so why is she still in? I'm not sure if Markos has factored in popular vote counts from the boutique, latte sipping - I mean caucus states.
I cannot see why Hillary would be doing better then Barack among seniors. Especially since Hillary voted for the war. This could mean her perceived experience chant is catching on with oldsters. Be aware of dangling chad.
http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/yourlife/th...
The issues seniors care about are the same issues seniors generally care about. A survey exists after the table which discusses specific items. I thought the survey was flawed because opposites were not really choices.
50+
Poppy should never have grown bin Laden.
Phil,
The initial Afgan campaign was brilliant but undermanned.
We went in with a mission, had the populace behind us as we over thru a repressive regime and installed locals in charge. We did not murder the populace out of hand. We had bin Laden until Powell or Rumsfeld decided to let the locals do it and left for Iraq. Since then the campaign has been a disaster as the Taliban is back in charge, the poppy crop is in full force, and we are wandering around the counryside being slowly ground to nothing.
All politicians chant more troops to Afgan without any idea what the mission is. The military leadership is concentrating on Iraq and Afgan is a bleeding wound that is being ignored.
Susan Rowe....
Imagine the devastation in the area if we hadn't given poppy seed to Afghanistan amd WMDs to Hussein and nuclear secrets to Israel. I'm sure I'm forgetting many of our gifts to the ME. that have enriched their lives.
Here's something cChalfonte will love - couldn't fit the whole chart on the blog but here's the link
http://www.nvic.org/doctors_corner/ed_yazbak_shaken_baby_syndrome.htm
Multiple Vaccinations And the Shaken Baby Syndrome
F. Edward Yazbak, MD, FAAP
Child abuse is a terrible crime and the failure to recognize it is unforgivable. An erroneous diagnosis of inflicted head trauma is just as tragic and the resulting destruction of a family is one of the gravest injustices of modern times. Many have recently questioned the existence of the so-called "Shaken Baby Syndrome" and the concept that the last caretaker must have been guilty. Careful reviews often uncover relevant findings that were missed or ignored. Recent pediatric vaccinations have been suspected as precipitating factors. A recent combination of seven antigens is the focus of this investigation
Vaccine
Date
Symptoms
Date
Days
SPT
Death
Date
Days
Death
8/26/2004
8/26/2004
0
8/27/2004
1
12/27/2004
12/27/2004
0
12/27/2004
0
1/5/2005
1/9/2005
4
1/9/2005
4
1/10/2005
1/14/2005
4
1/14/2005
4
1/28/2005
2/1/2005
4
2/2/2005
5
8/10/2004
8/11/2004
1
8/11/2004
1
3/14/2005
3/15/2005
1
3/15/2005
1
1/20/2005
1/20/2005
0
1/20/2005
0
1/26/2005
1/27/2005
1
1/27/2005
1
3/30/2005
3/31/2005
1
3/31/2005
1
3/8/2005
3/10/2005
2
3/11/2005
3
5/12/2005
5/16/2005
4
5/16/2005
4
12/28/2004
1/3/2005
6
1/3/2005
6
6/17/2005
6/18/2005
1
6/18/2005
1
6/21/2005
6/27/2005
6
6/27/2005
6
6/13/2005
6/14/2005
1
6/14/2005
1
7/11/2005
7/13/2005
2
7/20/2005
7/22/2005
2
7/22/2005
2
8/18/2005
8/19/2005
1
8/19/2005
1
8/19/2005
8/21/2005
2
8/21/2005
2
9/12/2005
9/13/2005
1
9/13/2005
1
9/6/2005
9/7/2005
9/19/2005
9/19/2005
0
9/19/2005
0
9/29/2005
10/1/2005
2
10/1/2005
2
10/11/2005
10/17/2005
6
10/17/2005
6
6/15/2005
6/21/2005
6
6/21/2005
6
9/22/2005
9/25/2005
3
9/25/2005
3
10/18/2005
10/19/2005
1
10/19/2005
1
2/8/2005
2/8/2005
0
2/8/2005
0
5/25/2005
5/26/2005
1
5/26/2005
1
sorry about that, here's the link again - best to check it out.
http://www.nvic.org/doctors_corner/ed_yazbak_shaken_baby_syndrome.htm
Sorry...just saw the question directed at me.
I don't know what good we are doing in Afgan? Is the populace supporting us? The Taliban control the country except for Karsai's government center in Kabul. If the goal is to remove the Taliban then we have lost. If we leave Iraq, are we going to have Afgan II? We cannot do both Iraq and Afgan. Can we do either? Should we do either?
If we want the bin Laden organization then we should bribe those who are supporting him. The rest of the world knows the danger looming with bin Laden's organization. I would offer the neighbors development packages they could not possibly dream of. Lets say 30% now and the rest when the al Queda dead are displayed and bin Laden is lieing on a slab.
Sorry...just saw the question directed at me.
I don't know what good we are doing in Afgan? Is the populace supporting us? The Taliban control the country except for Karsai's government center in Kabul. If the goal is to remove the Taliban then we have lost. If we leave Iraq, are we going to have Afgan II? We cannot do both Iraq and Afgan. Can we do either? Should we do either?
If we want the bin Laden organization then we should bribe those who are supporting him. The rest of the world knows the danger looming with bin Laden's organization. I would offer the neighbors development packages they could not possibly dream of. Lets say 30% now and the rest when the al Queda dead are displayed and bin Laden is lieing on a slab.
oops..double clicks..
dog soldier
Thu, 03/13/08
Reply to this
I cannot see why Hillary would be doing better then Barack among seniors.
===============
I think it is because the older one is, the more they are brainwashed into being not capable of imagining a non-white President.
"Love the logic, don't believe in anybody because you will be disappointed. Look for the invisible which only a few can see, and those few know what others don't. Huh? Doesn't make any sense to me. "
No, Pat, I said, or maybe I wasn't clear, be careful of high expectations which is different than belief, if the belief is built on solid ground. Also, voters often do not vote logically and we all know that. The invisible I mentioned comes from the heart and gut. And everyone has a heart and a gut ....as far as I know.... :-) Not dissing you here, just trying to clarify.
**************************
I wonder how much of that CIA poppy money that comes from addicted people here on the street, goes right back into arms. I'm not cynical, just like Audrey isn't. LOL
I, too, would like BO to explicitly state just how he's going to win the war in Afghan. Perhaps he was too young to know what happened to the Russians. He's sadly lacking in foreign policy experience and knowledge.
And his statements about going into Pakistan w/o permission are dangerous and very provoking. The implication was that he'd bomb becuz he said we didn't have enuf troops...something like that...I have the quote somewhere. And what about Iran, Syria etc. What do we know about the foreign policy ideas of either of them? Except that they support RW AIPAC? Does that mean that there really is no plan to leave the ME in peace? Remove the bases? Stop the killing? End the madness? Get our troops out? I don't sense peace around the corner anytime soon. Man, do I want to be wrong a lot.
We need a mano a mano debate - just foreign policy.
As far as HC apologizing today, it's never too late or too little. I think she knows that the people she trusted have helped harm her ...hopefully she's wising up.
"If we want the bin Laden organization then we should bribe those who are supporting him. The rest of the world knows the danger looming with bin Laden's organization. I would offer the neighbors development packages they could not possibly dream of."===
dog, thanks for the response. I'm always puzzled as to why we stopped short in Afghanistan. The options you point out are reasonable to me and I think would be, or would have been, to other nations.
there are 300 million children worldwide who will never step inside a school and for the cost of a war could build a school, drill a well for drinking water, furnish lunches with breakfast, and provide culture appropriate books for everyone, but can't even do it in NOLA with our misquided pro-military budget priorities, but long term know which would provide us more security
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By * cChalfonte* on Mar 13, 2008 3:02 PM EDTToday, the other Howard is first.
Senator Howard Metzenbaum.