By gum, Dean is first.

Tom, you have the most wonderful inventive ways to say Dean is first.  I love it.

I have the talent of always posting last on a thread. 

So I'll say it again.

Thanks to the cowgirls, cowboys, ranchers, and all the good people in the great state of Wyoming.

Wyoming, 96% reporting: Obama 59, Clinton 40. . . .

Not lookin' good Hill. . . .

AND OBAMA WON TEXAS!!!!

The way Congress does that....

first and only term! LOL

Peace. "Dogma"

Wait, Did Obama win Texas?

Just kidding. LOL!

I have two posts and both have LOL! (Must be in a giggly mood!) Peace everyone. "Dogma"

Wyoming I Love You.  Thank You.

Well, mr. Charles, it's like this.  The telecom corporations are already protected from being held liable since they responded to government directives in good faith.  The guy whose a** is in the wringer is the guy who suborned the corporations to break the law and violate their contracts with their customers.  So, the real issue here is giving the executive authority he didn't have retroactively.  i happen to think that's a bad idea, but i also understand why public officials are conflicted.  They'd like to be protected from the negative consequences of their decisions themselves.  The other thing is that it's probably a bad idea to give the spies access to the global communications network.  Not only have they proven not to be particularly swift when it comes to anything electronic, but the failure to insure security from government snooping is going to destroy the credibility of the system and prompt other nations to set up their own alternatives.  I'm not an expert, but i can't see how having Estonia or Latvia using their languages as a code is a good idea.  If Bush/Cheney were good businessmen, they'd never have made such a bonehead mistake.

Yes, have you written your LTE making the point that Texans went for Obama?

WASHINGTON, D.C. - To be born poor and black and into an inner city neighborhood does not mean you can't achieve your highest ambitions.

If you don't believe that, just ask Gen. Colin Powell. Powell was born 58 years ago in New York City's Harlem. But through a combination of ability and hard work, he rose to become chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff - the highest position in the U.S. military. Now polls show that General Powell has a good chance of capturing an even higher office - the office of President of the United States. A Time/CNN poll shows that, if Gen. Powell were to run today as a Republican, he would beat President Clinton by 51 percent of the vote to 41 percent....

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EPF/is_n5_v95/ai_17459252

seashell - if you show up.  I responded to your comment to me on the last thread - I won't bring the post over here but it's there if you're interested in my response to you.

42.

*** cChalfonte***
Sat, 03/08/08

There is not, in existence, any data that suggest "90% of Americans would have voted for Colin Powell". That is a typical Fred exaggeration/extrapolation based on nothing.

40.

*** cChalfonte***
Sat, 03/08/08

In typical "fred" style, you conjure up an indefensible, no-substance, argument and then hump it to death here on the blog

================================
What I said was...

30.

FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 03/08/08

Powell's 90% approval (for nomination) was among ALL Americans, not just ideological Republicans that agreed with him.

And what about this...?

10.

FRED from Ashland OR
Sat, 03/08/08

Will he run? Polls show Gen. Colin Powell could win 1996 presidential election - if he decides to run

Current Events, Oct 9, 1995

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EPF/is_n5_v95/ai_17459252

cChalfonte, you should be more civil and less personal in your attacks, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOSE THE ARGUMENT.

Are we arguing about the 1996 election? Peace. "Dogma"

Malloy last night was talking about US incursions into Latin and South America starting in 1898.....the list was obscenely long.

********************************* 

RACE IS NOT A FACTOR WITH OBAMA - It wasn't on the right wing with Powell, and certainly not with liberal and the left, but Clintonistas would like to scare you into believing it is.

Is Wyoming a latte-sippin' state? Cuz last time I was there - it seemed more Dunkin Donuts to me. Will the Clintons ever stop with the frickin' insults?

Go O'Bama.

well I am worried about Reed - we haven't heard from him here today, probably because he's been working through the snow, sleet and freezing rain that's been coming down for more than 24 hours now.  it's suks because it reminds me of the bad ice storm we had in '98.  I still have power (obviously) but will probably lose my birches - their tips are laying on the ground (and a roof) and they just informed us that when the rain ends in a few hours we will be getting 2 to 4" of fresh snow on top of that.  I know, I shouldn't complain - a lot of other places are much worse off but I HATE ice storms - I can 'feel' it when those trees splinter into toothpicks. 

stay safe Reed - hope you can get a break for a while.  state police have called a state of emergency and for all vehicles to stay off the roads - it has to be BAD for them to do that in Vermont - last time I remember was a huge snow storm more than 30 years ago that shut down travel by all but snowmobiles, who were temporarily (5 days) allowed to drive on the roads as they were the only way to rescue folks, get food and water and medical care to them and get out to repair power lines etc.

a quick post of a newly released statistic.........personal bankruptcies rose 28% over last year's figure and 18% over last month's.  and how did our candidates vote on the bankruptcy bill of 2005?

*hillary voted for it, essentially blocking middle income families from bankruptcy protection if they sunk into deep credit card debt in order to survive.  how can families who are hurting vote for that monster?   fear and confusion, i suppose. 

[hillary has the survival abilities of a cockroach caught in the vortex of draining the kitchen sink!  i was so awed when i saw this. cockroaches have survived since the age of the dinosaurs, and so has hillary.]

*barack voted against the same bill.

Jo, I read it and respectfully disagree.

War, all war, should be taken off the table once and for all.  It could and can be done, but not with the 3 we have running.  It would take a person of great courage who'll think outside the box and surround him/herself with people like Kucinich and Gravel; Gore and  Feingold, Boxer, McKinney.

The first thing is an even-handed approach to I/P.  Not gonna happen with these 3.  Howard was crucified for even suggesting that.  But if we want peace in the ME, the horrors of I/P must be resolved.  I don't think Americans should be dying for oil, bases, land grabs and to protect our "special friend."

We need a  courageous person who recognizes that Olmert is as vicious as Putz and both are considered terrorists in many countries of the world.  Both need to be replaced with sane people and with sane governments that will not kill anyone anywhere anymore.  It'll catch on.  :-)

We have to change the conversation and the way of doing bidness.

Keeping military options on the table won't change a thing.  It's bullying, threatening and war-like.  Yuck.

I have lots of other ideas to bring about peace but not here right now.   

Are we arguing about the 1996 election? Peace. "Dogma"

=====================

Nah, but it is interesting that if extenuating personal family considerations had not kept Colin Powell out of the race in 1996, everything would have been different.  He may have won, which means Hillary would only be talking about four years experience in the WH, and Obama would be the second African-American to screw up the Clinton agenda.

Of course, if Powell had won a second term, he would have been President during 9/11 and everything would have been different, I'm sure.

...correcting pinsocial's error

*************

Take the bankruptcy bill of 2005, for example. S. 256 was a bill that made it harder for people to declare bankruptcy when their debts overwhelmed them, made it harder for struggling people to keep basic assets like a roof over their heads when working out bankruptcy arrangements, and increased the return for credit card companies that were already making huge profits. Those who voted to pass the bill helped protect the high-profit, high-interest-rate consumer credit industry against people struggling just to keep their heads above water.

On the bill’s final passage John McCain voted YES to pass the bill. McCain voted in favor of the interests of credit card companies and against the interests of people struggling to make ends meet. Barack Obama voted NO against the bill, voting to keep protections for people in American bankruptcy law. Hillary Clinton was not present to vote on the bill’s final passage.

Before the bill made it to a final vote in the Senate, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton both voted to prevent the closure of debate on the bill (such a vote is called “cloture” in the Senate because, well, the Senate loves to use fusty old words that confuse people like you and me). John McCain voted to stop talking about the bill and pass it already to help out his friends in the credit card industry.

 http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2008/02/18/clinton-obama-mccain-and-the-bankruptcy-bill/

if you're interested, this is what Peter Galbraith has to say about the Iraq surge - and he sure as hell makes a lot of sense, imo.  he comes into the clip at around 1:39.  he's the man whose exploring the possibility and we HOPE will run for Governor in VT.  he's way over-qualified but this is most likely his entrance into politics with something bigger in mind and he sure would do a good job of cleaning up the mess Douglas has made...  then again, he may just be doing it because he loves Vermont - that's what he says anyway!  couldn't link the vid direct so here's the URL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSZbwrYAXfg

There is the possibility that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Bush weren't president. He's taking the credit for no incidences since then but perhaps he could take credit for that incidence too. (Probably not, but it certainly is a thought.) Peace. "Dogma"

War, all war, should be taken off the table once and for all.  It could and can be done, but not with the 3 we have running.  It would take a person of great courage who'll think outside the box and surround him/herself with people like Kucinich and Gravel; Gore and  Feingold, Boxer, McKinney.

I might agree if you convinced me that every nation on this earth would do the same.

not

gonna

happen.

Seashell wrote: 

The first thing is an even-handed approach to I/P.  Not gonna happen with these 3.  Howard was crucified for even suggesting that.  But if we want peace in the ME, the horrors of I/P must be resolved.  I don't think Americans should be dying for oil, bases, land grabs and to protect our "special friend."

 hmmmmmmm?????????????????????

See Ya.

Wasn't it Howard who said: Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good? He *was* not for single payer, because he didn't think it could be passed. He was for doing what *could* be done, moving in the direction he wished.

Kucinich is "perfect" except that he'll NEVER be nominated.

And every time we lose, it becomes harder to come back to where we used to be.

Time to win.

Go O!!

I don't think Americans should be dying for oil, bases, land grabs and to protect our "special friend."

me either, sea.  but even if there were peace in the ME tomorrow we always have China - with our current weakness they would probably be attacking right now IF we didn't owe them so much money.  and they know that the debt is only going to grow.

no one will negotiate with us in the way we/they need to in order to create a peaceful planet unless they:

1) know that we can protect ouirselves, and

2) trust that we will be honorable in our negotiations.

it's going to take a lot of hard work and a long time to get there.  until then we need to repair our relations around the globe, fix our crumbling nation and help to provide food, medicine, clean water, education and HOPE to whoever needs it.  then things might start to change.

hi puddle!  yes, Howard is very pragmatic.  it's how he got so much done in Vermont, especially in the area of health care.

Here's a pic of one of Obama's latte-sippin, Birkenstock-wearing, Prius-driving, trust fund precinct captains.

Scroll down to Caucusing in Wyoming.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

... But if we want peace in the ME, the horrors of I/P must be resolved.  I don't think Americans should be dying for oil, bases, land grabs and to protect our "special friend."

======================

The irony here is that...if the USA were not so blindly supportive of Israel's militarism, and human rights abuses ( within Israel to Arab its citizens, the Gaza embargo, and the West Bank "Jim Crow" subjugation of indigenous people by foreign Jewish Immigrant settlers)

 Israel's  Right Wing government would not be as provocative and abusive to non-Jewish populations in the region, such that the cycle of violence would alleviate, and our "special friend" would not require so much "protection."

Dem. in Early Lead to Fill Hastert Seat

[...]

Democrat Bill Foster had a 54 percent to 46 percent lead over Republican businessman Jim Oberweis with just 90 of 568 precincts reporting.

[...]

Cross your fingers, folks!

Here's a pic of one of Obama's latte-sippin, Birkenstock-wearing, Prius-driving, trust fund precinct captains.

*giggle*

Those last 3 WY caucus venues *did* put Obama over the top.

61% sounds great! Mucho better than 59%.

One straggler delegate in w/the "uncommitteds" (really stupid), also.

"Insignificant" red caucus states, indeedy....

Hardly...they all add up.

http://tinyurl.com/2m8jtd

we always have China - with our current weakness they would probably be attacking right now IF we didn't owe them so much money.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Too funny, Jo. Historically, China has attacked virtually NO ONE. . . . ever. . . .

Great Walls are lousy attack plans. . . .

*We* however seem to need an enemy for our own peace of mind. Maybe we can get the old Soviet Union back? Ya think?

"34. Karen Sat, 03/08/08"

They resemble Mainers--rugged Euro-white individualists (highly Libertarian).

Folgers drinkers, thanks.

Not at all wealthy; and drive a beater, etc.

Yes, the trust fund puppies (backwater granola flatlanders from the 70s) in ME are the only folks who can afford to drive a Prius/Honda.

Being "green" costs money....

Working class folks (who are thrilled to finally be noticed on the nat'l scene).

You can bet they'll remember Obama on Nov. 4th.

Go, WY!

Hillary's 'expreience' overseas... this from the Obama camp - she's not going to be haaaapppy... hat tip to mary vb for the link!

Obama communications director Robert Gibbs emails reporters with a picture of Clinton and Sheryl Crow from a 1996 trip to Kosovo Bosnia, linking a series of recent articles including this Chicago Tribune piece making the point that Clinton wasn't a central player on foreign policy in her husband's administration.

Not certain as to your sudden obsession with Colin Powell, lol.

But thanks for the article that in no states "90% of Americans supported Powell for President", as you previously claimed, Fred.

Like I said...yet another fred exaggeration/extrapolation.

Facts:

***
CP never ran for President.
he considered running as a REPUBLICAN in 1995.
Time Mag. took a poll in 1995.
***

There is no particular relevance to Barack Obama's run for the presidency as a DEMOCRAT in 2008.

Yes, they are both male and African American.

Great Walls are lousy attack plans. . . .

yes, but the huge (recent) increase in their military and navy should give one pause...

Special Election in Hastert's old Illinois district

Campaign 2008: 14th Congressional District

"Folgers drinkers, thanks."====

YECHHHHHHH!!!
j/k;)

As a novice, it is hard to understand why The Chicago Tribune has not yet called the special election in the 14th congressional district for

the Democrat Bill Foster 

U.S. House - District 14 - Special General

Vote %

53%

47%

puddle - a clip...  from March 6, 2008

China announced this week that its defense budget for 2008 will total about $58.79 billion—a 17.6% increase over last year. This will be the twentieth consecutive year China’s military budget sees double-digit growth.

Earlier this week, the United States Congress received its annual report from the Pentagon on the Chinese military. The report stated that the U.S. was unsure of China’s intentions and that the actual spending for last year was between $97 billion and $139 billion—about three times official estimates. However, due to lack of transparency, the U.S. cannot know for sure how much was spent or the specifics of how funds were used.

While announcing the release of the report, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for East Asia David Sedney questioned China’s military intentions: “The real story is the continuing development, the continuing modernization, the continuing acquisition of capabilities and the corresponding and unfortunate lack of understanding, lack of transparency about the intentions of those and how they are going to be employed. What is China going to do with all that?”

http://www.realtruth.org/news/080306-001-asia.html

OR, if you don't like that source - this clip from March 5, 2008:

clip...

In recent years, China has been working to transform its 2.3 million-man armed forces -- with roots in the peasant army that brought the Communist Party to power here in 1949 -- into a more sophisticated military capable of winning modern wars.

China has expanded its missile arsenal, added warships and submarines and is upgrading wings of bombers and fighter aircraft. Last year it successfully used a ballistic missile to destroy a satellite in orbit, demonstrating space-warfare capabilities.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120462837702610135.html?mod=googlenews_wsj 

but you know a lot about China and may know someone who could confirm or debunk this - check for yourself.  I personally feel that it's an awful lot just for defense, as they suggest.

Chicago Tribune declares Dem Bill Foster WINNER in special election for retired pig of the House Hatert

Chicago Sun-Times tips hat to Dem Foster, too!

wOOT!

61% : 38%

:-)))))))))))))))))

Go O!!!
~ ~ ~ ~

Jo, yep, we should always keep a wary eye.
~ ~ ~ ~

Will be back later if the connection comes through again. Time to go deliver the lemon meringue pie to Dan, a lovely gentleman in his late 70's that reminds me of my g-pa ~ can make friends w/ anyone in an instant, tells great stories, and loves to stop in the local watering hole for a beer after work (he stands outside to direct parking at a restaurant!)
~ ~ ~ ~

♥'s to all

Kindness is free!

9:56 pm est

Night, night.

Yea, Foster!

bbl

9:58 pm est

Not certain as to your sudden obsession with Colin Powell, lol.

But thanks for the article that in no states "90% of Americans supported Powell for President", as you previously claimed, Fred.

Like I said...yet another fred exaggeration/extrapolation

=========================

I remember that 90% of the American people had a favorable impression of him... I don't need to document this 90% because it is not necessary to make the point...I gave you some documentation that polls show he could have beaten Clinton.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EPF/is_n5_v95/ai_17459252

It is not necessary to get nasty and insulting - I proved my point.  Your insults  and your exageration of  this redding herring of yours (90%...) is not necessary and not germaine to the basic question of our debate.

congrats Bill Foster!  thanks for the updates paine!

"I remember that 90% of the American people"====

Exactly. It's just another fred exaggeration/extrapolation.
No facts. No data. Just cuz fred says so.

(90%...) is not necessary and not germaine to the basic question of our debate.====

ummm. actually, it is the crux of your argument. YOU made the claim...then you claim it isn't relevant.

My point: CP 1995, not relevant to BO 2008.

Done:)

new thread

and blog baby Holly has a little baby girl calf if someone wants to inform Holly J at HEP

new thread

and no fair making fun of Folgers fans when they aren't here to defend themselves

"We lived our lives in fear."

Quote from "Strictly Ballroom."

Jo:

The cycle of violence must be broken; why not with us, since we are now one of the greatest purveyors?  Your attitude doesn't even allow for hope, which is a little play with words.  :-)

********************** 

How about we stop arming Israel, stop nation building around the world, put great men and women at the diplomacy table and cease our horrific build-up of weapons and more arms that maim and destroy?  We could stop our incessant and inane babbling about our "special friend"...which infuriates a lot of people who  otherwise might be more than happy to talk with us.

What do we have to lose?  We keep enuf weapons for defense of course. 

We put down our weapons, wave the white flag and apologize for our greed and fear.  We ask the world to forgive us for our horrific transgressions of the past.  WE GET THE HELL OUTTA THE ME AND EVERY OTHER PLACE WE'RE IMPOSING OUR WILL.

And then we see what happens.  We wait, we talk, we give aid and comfort to those in great need..and they're everywhere...we start repairing our infrastructure, give us a great health care plan etc.

We wait some more.  We invite men of peace to tables everywhere.  People who live in fear try to control things.  We have to give up control.  Right now we're modeling greed and imperialism.  We need to model love, peace, tolerance and true caring about all other types of people.  We model, and we wait to see what the reaction of other nations is.

Trust me.  Eventually it'll catch on.  

To live this other way, keeping nukes and war on the table, and arming other countries with them, is simply crazy, true madness.  Eventually fear and madness will blow us all up.

We throw down the gauntlet and say, "Who will join us in stopping the killing?  We get leaders of every major and minor religion and political affiliation and spiritual practice together to work on this at the greatest round table of all time.  Those leaders who do not want world peace do not get a seat at the table.

But one thing's for sure.  We can't be talking peace and be taken seriously while still talking about military options and chasing al queda hither and yon and maybe invading sovereign nations and bragging about how we're the greatest country in the world and god bless america apple pie.

We have to radically change what we say and do and they have to be consistent. 

And then we do nothing but wait some more.  Doing nothing (hostile) would allow the world to breath again, after the aggressive policies of *nation building* and spreading of *democracy.* 

Golly gee whiz, I wasn't going to let the soap box out again today. :-)