Dean is first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FPuLNjv...://www.dailypaul.com/ Videos Channels FOX News Exposes Diebold Electronic Vote Flipping in Florida

Tom Bearse
Sat, 02/02/08

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Daniel wrote "Get on your knees and pray, not only for yourselves but for the Nation. Hillary will be in the White House, and the baby-killer Obama will be her V.P."

I have to concede that Paul would force all pregnant women to carry their pregnancies to term, thus killing no babies until birth, after which he would be content to see many of them die from neglectm caused by him simply ignoring the social compact and removing the social safety net. he not killing anyone its you who want to kill baby before they have a chance to see there mothers once the baby is here its up to the parent to take care of it it call responsibility, your safety net is kill them now! how many of your kids can we kill tom? i hate baby killers!!!!!!!!!!

Daniel wrote "he not killing anyone its you who want to kill baby before they have a chance to see there mothers once the baby is here its up to the parent to take care of it it call responsibility, your safety net is kill them now! how many of your kids can we kill tom? i hate baby killers!!!!!!!!!!"

Correction, you hate fetus killers.  After negotiating birth, babies are on their own under Ron Paul's libertarian doctrine of live and let die.  I'm calling you and your political hero out on your sanctimonious bullshit.

Zetta don't be fooled by Tom he is trying to drive Edwards supporters to Clinton with his attacks.(or at least that will be the outcome)

thanks for stopping by, and for your informed commentary

"3. DANIEL ROONEY
Sat, 02/02/08"

...ever contemplated why women initiate divorces per year in the USA?

Misogynistic attitudes such as yours (and Paul's), that's why.

Although I'm a big Obama fan I fear that this KOS diary and Kos himself have it right about Thursday night. Obama needed to do more, in spite of more questions being unfairly thrown to Hillary.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2...

ttfn

s/b: per the millions.

Get a life (and a vasectomy), Chump.

Well....it looks like Edwards' former support has split EVENLY between Obama and the Clintons.

Scroll down to see graphic of both spiking equally....... 

It's a wash. 

I rest my case. 

Zetta don't be fooled by Tom he is trying to drive Edwards supporters to Clinton with his attacks.

Phillogical as usual. Just because someone doesn't shamelessly smooze and shill for a candidate, as many do, doesn't mean he's a mole for another. 

Update on my California phone calling for Obama via MoveOn...

...been on the phone for two hours, talked with maybe 50 people and out of the 50, two for HC, rest for Barack. Don't know what this means but I'm finding it very interesting.

Snow & Suzie-Q Collins are McCain's Maine Co-Chairs for his campaign.

I can't wait to see the results...their party is ripping itself to shreds; and are broke (MRP is in the hole, financially speaking).

These are the folks who despise "change" of any sort; & it's the hardcore right-wing Rapture nutjob evangelicals who are caucusing today (and yesterday).

Their caucus votes are nonbinding in nature, which is entirely different than that of the MDP.

I'd looooooooooooove to be a fly on the wall this afternoon in some of those public venues. Ouch.

Seriously nasty people, indeedy.

If Paul drove his supporters (mostly first-timers/new enrollees/infrequent political types) to their caucuses, the sparks are guaranteed to be flyin'.

It's a wash. ~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~

Hillary wins.

Phil wrote "don't be fooled by Tom he is trying to drive Edwards supporters to Clinton with his attacks."

Zetta is the one who is surprised, in her words, to see so many Edwards supporters moving to Obama.  If seeing them driven towards Clinton was my intent, as you suggest, it wouldn't take any unusual effort on my part.  But as you've informed us and Zetta confirms, they drift that way on their own.  Reading the heartfelt liberal manifestos that Edwards' supporters regularly treated us to here, I would have suspected otherwise.

Annilow

yikes, kos and I agreed about the debate, don't know what alignment of the stars brought that about

but Obama needs to keep those phones rocking

Karen

they must have given you a list of ones to hold the hands of

I don't give a hoot over Ron Paul's reelection. He is too radical and I hope he loses.

~

 sitka

I have yet to see a poll in the Dem primary that was even in the ballpark.

~~~~~~

Too many cooks spoils the soup. Obama is doing a terrific job w/o Kos or other pundits telling him where he went wrong or what he should do.

Consider where he has come from in just a very short time. Keep the faith.

It's a wash. ~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~

Hillary wins.

Perhaps if those national polls were what decided the nomination. But of course they don't. They just just show that Edwards small number of supporters has split evenly for now.

What I've been hearing consistently is that Obama is spiking big in the UberTuesday states.

Although I'm a big Obama fan I fear that this KOS diary and Kos himself have it right about Thursday night.

I watched it and don't need KOS to tell what to think about it. I thought Obama wiped the floor with Hillary -- especially when he said wants to "change the mindset" that led Hillary to follow Bush to war.

Thank you, Zetta.  We need your voice.

Phil,  I think JE will still be on our ballot in May.  If I vote for him, does he still get delegates if enuf of us vote for him?  Can it help at the convention?

If not, I'll vote "undecided." 

I think you're right, Phil.  The Edwards vote split and has nothing to do with JE being southern and white and everything to do with him being a populist and progressive. 

That HC/BO ticket looks closer, doesn't it?  

We shall see. 

seashell wrote "The Edwards vote split . . . has nothing to do with JE being southern and white and everything to do with him being a populist and progressive."

How did you come to that conclusion?

we are in uncharted territory with a dump of 15% undecided into the first national primary within days

calling self identified supporters and getting them all to the polls is a good plan

so is flying from big rally to big rally to pick up tens of thousands more

I'd do a little more targeting of those new undecideds,different script required,laid back attitude

I have yet to see a poll in the Dem primary that was even in the ballpark.

The ones in IA and NV were pretty accurate. The ones in NH pegged Obama's % correctly,  but underestimated Hillary. The ones in SC vastly underpredicted Obama's surge. If I had to make a guess about UberTuesday, it would be they are underestimating Obama again.

seashell

If you don't want Hillary vote for Obama.

9.

 Don't know what this means but I'm finding it very interesting.

Hard to say Karen, but fingers crossed.

Perhaps the Obama camp gives out numbers of known progressives to call and get to the polls.

Phil wrote "If you don't want Hillary vote for Obama."

Like some other Edwards' supporters, she's already told us she's ambivalent about the ultimate winner at this stage.

How did you come to that conclusion?

As with sausage, you just don't ask how it was made. 

 If I had to make a guess about UberTuesday, it would be they are underestimating Obama again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, none has shown him over 43 and I think he will reach the upper 40's with his current surge

the test will come in keeping momentum from a close second

Pat wrote: "I think the vote to fund the troops is debatable.  In other words, if we were in his situation, how would we have voted?  It's all too easy to say bring them home now, defund the war, but I do think there is the argument that not to fund the troops would have put them in jeopardy.  This Administration did put them in jeopardy by not providing enough troops, the armor or vehicles they needed,  the spacing between battles (Dog Soldier addressed that very well, I thought), and the care they needed when they came  home wounded physically and mentally.

I'm not convinced that Obama's vote to fund the troops as he has defended it is the condemnation that you make of it, Huron John.  If that's the only thing that is critical of Obama, that doesn't carry enough weight for me."

*******************

I would have voted not only to close the purse, but start impeachment.  I also would have filibustered and would not have voted for Mukasey. And that clean coal thing is really disturbing.  And I would have voted no on Kyl-L instead of simply not being there. 

Have you checked his voting record clearly?   He and HC are close to being twins.  Can you see that?

the test will come in keeping momentum from a close second

If the Clinton's come in second will it cause the final implosian of their campaign? 

seashell wrote "Have you checked [Obama's] voting record clearly?   He and HC are close to being twins.  Can you see that?"

Coming from an Edwards supporter, I find this type of characterization beyond strange.

sp=Snowe.

Collins claims to be "bipartisan," dontcha know? Great Co-Chairs (not).

:::wink:::

Local news oughta be hot tonight (Mainers never miss local affiliate evening news, BTW).

Nevuuuh.

Go, Chellie (primarying in CD#1 against 5 men, BTW)~

http://www.actblue.com/page/mf

I can't vote for Chellie; however, she still has a strong network of supporters in CD#2 (strong women, esp.); and I think the world of her, natch.

Maine has never sent a female Democrat to D.C.--let alone, a *progressive feminist*.

Slap that misogynistic donkey, folks.

"More and better Dems, pls.," indeedy.

Feel free to add your name @the bottom of Chellie's endorsement list:

http://tinyurl.com/yslcla

Thanks~

seashell:

If you vote for Edwards (even if he's still on your ballot--he is in Maine; as they were printed before he dropped out this past week--and the absentee ballots have been out for 3+ weeks before now), it won't count for shit.

Why bother???

You only have two choices at this point: Billary or Obama.

Select the most progressive amongst the two (it ain't Billary).

I don't care for either of 'em (hell, I'm still unenrolled).

However, there's a time in life to be pragmatic.

A.B.H.

Go Google the caucus/primary delegate selection laws in your state.

Too many cooks spoils the soup. Obama is doing a terrific job w/o Kos or other pundits telling him where he went wrong or what he should do.

I expect Moulitsas is one of those bitter Edwardiacs who blames Obama for siphoning off the support that rightfully belonged to Edwards'. 

Phil, by the time OR votes, I think it'll not matter if I mark Daffy Duck.   Why shouldn't I just stay home?  At this point in time, I don't want either one of them. 

This thing about having only one prez is getting annoying.  We need 3 at least, since having only runs the risk of a Bush.  The 3 we had before JE dropped out would have made a decent ticket.

We shall see. 

I'm stocking up on popcorn and gradually getting used to the idea that corporate power will continue to rule and even increase.  

Clinton won't be pushed around by the corps becuz she IS the corps.  BO, OTOH, will be a snack for the corps.  IMO  

Hi,

Quick drop in.  

Seashell, I have looked at his voting record, both in the illinois Legislature and the Congress.

I suggest you read his book.  It might give you a broader perspective on who he is and how he thinks.  He isn't an ideologue, doesn't do what the polls tell him to do.

My perspective: we have a senator in our state legislature here who is Republican.  He first drew our attention when he said that to use urban renewal funds to take farm lands and develop them commercially is unethical and not legal.  Republicans and Democrats were allowing that to happen. He has taken very ethical stands, has worked hard for universal health care and  has criticized the insurance companies.

We have supported him, contributed to him, and even though I don't agree with all his votes, or positions, he is an ethical, thoughtful, reasonable man who has given his best to Colorado. That's what I expect of a candidate.  I know how he thinks, know his record, have evidence of his character and integrity.

It seems ridiculous to me to demand a representative vote the way I want her/him to.  I don't want a puppet, a panderer.  I want someone who can think and give congent and persuasive reasoning for how he votes.

Whatever you might think, from my study of Obama, he is not a twin of Clinton, but you have to learn more about him if you are to come to a different conclusion. 

To argue over ignorance and impressions is a waste of time.   

what are the voting expectations Tues? 10 million? so Obama going from 37% to 43% in a matter of days means he picked up 600,000 supporters (he should have got that from Edwards alone)

to win the general you need to bring in 100 million plus

they only list that matters right now is likely voters and GOTV for volunteers

and the surge means you hope your walk in voter surge beats the advantage the opposition had in the early voting

but going forward, I'd think it might pay to go right to the appeal to the nation, for the later states

this past week I would have made my best pitch for the progressive vote cut loose by Edwards

Hillary did directly with her answer to the health care question. Obama should have gotten more of the split.

The Obama ad I saw on today's noon NBC local news affiliate w/with Caroline Kennedy.

Nicely done...nothing like Trippi's shitty ads, BTW.

Will see what they broadcast tonight, between 6:00-7:00 p.m. (as well as on the 11:00 p.m. local news).

Has anyone been over to mydd lately? It's been taken over by Hillary supporters. I know their are a lot of Obama supporters here but one thing I think we all believe in is Dean's 50 state mission. Not so with Hillary supporters as a rule. This is just my opinion obviously.

their s/b there.

I have 3 months to see if I can truly feel comfy with either one of these 2 left.  I don't right now.   A lot can happen in three months.

vb wrote "Has anyone been over to mydd lately? It's been taken over by Hillary supporters."

Led by Jerome Armstrong, mydd was an anti-Obama megaphone from the outset.  The only change since then is that the many anti-Obama Edwards supporters either left or joined forces with the anti-Obama Clinton supporters. 

Anybody remember what the polls were for SC in the lead up to their vote? I know Obama was in the low 40's. Hillary was in the mid to high 20's I believe. Obama outperformed the polls by a substantial margin but I can't remember if he was trending high every day.

seashell wrote "Why shouldn't I just stay home?  At this point in time, I don't want either one of them."

See Phil?  seashell doesn't want Clinton or Obama, at this point in time. 

what are the voting expectations Tues? 10 million? so Obama going from 37% to 43% in a matter of days means he picked up 600,000 supporters (he should have got that from Edwards alone)

That would be to assume the polls aren't underesting his spike -- which may not be finished. 

to win the general you need to bring in 100 million plus

Actually it would be 50M+ since only 122,267,553 voted in 2004

but going forward, I'd think it might pay to go right to the appeal to the nation, for the later states

Obama has been running ads in "down the road" states. And like them or not, his recent remarks about Reagan also show that he's thinking about a national election strategy rather than a purely primary one. 

this past week I would have made my best pitch for the progressive vote cut loose by Edwards

If you watched Obama's remarks when Edwards quit and at the debate closely you would have seen him do just that (short of standing on top of Edwards' political corpse to do it -- which you and others would have attacked him for doing.)

Thanks, Pat, for that good response.  I think many JE supporters feel that we're between a rock and a hard place, reminiscent of when Dean lost.  We're in mourning.

I will watch and listen very closely to BO in the coming months. 

Has anyone been over to mydd lately? It's been taken over by Hillary supporters.

I've noticed in the past that what seem like organized gangs of supporters will take over that blog for a while in turn. 

Tom, don't fret so much.  At this time means today!  We've a long way to go ....  jumping on and criticizing JE supporters is not wise. 

Also Tom, read closely.  I can't vote until May fer god's sake.

Led by Jerome Armstrong, mydd was an anti-Obama megaphone from the outset.

He and Moulitsas aren't nearly the king makers they seem to fancy themselves. 

Before I say, good bye.  There's a book about Hillary Clinton.  I believe it's called, Her Way, that people may want to read.

I think to have any real confidence in the candidates, we have to get to know them better.  The debates for the most part were like Jeopardy,  quiz shows.  So much of what we learn is sound bytes, which prohibits any real analysis or depth.

Who are these people we are entrusting our country to? Certainly they are  human and will make mistakes, but do they have integrity, honesty, a real desire to serve the whole, not just those who agree with them?  Are these people who are creative, capable of nuanced and complex thinking? Do they have experiences that reveal how they act, reveal their character? How do they get along with others?  Are they capable of putting their egoes aside to serve the greater good? Are they flexible?  Do they seek out those who disagree with them, who have entirely different perspectives and life experiences?

 I really feel we are on the brink here of catastrophe both as a planet and as a country.  Popularity and ideology have proved to be inadequate, have proved to be a cheat as far as real service to this country.

Well, off.  It's good to be talking to each other again.  You are valued friends. 

Who are these people we are entrusting our country to? Certainly they are  human and will make mistakes, but do they have integrity, honesty, a real desire to serve the whole, not just those who agree with them?  Are these people who are creative, capable of nuanced and complex thinking? Do they have experiences that reveal how they act, reveal their character? How do they get along with others?  Are they capable of putting their egoes aside to serve the greater good? Are they flexible?  Do they seek out those who disagree with them, who have entirely different perspectives and life experiences?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We have a pretty evenly matched pair from that list so you go back a tier to who do they surround themselves with?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obama could play cover two but Bill is a Moss wildcard, best just put up a lot your own points and see where it shakes out late in the game 

Off to console my son. His first broken heart sadly. I'm not certain who is wounded more - the rest of us or him. Poor kid.

And so it continued for the whole three hours of California phone banking for Barack via MoveOn...

They're voting for Barack;  that's basically all I heard over and over and over again. 

"Polls" mean jack shit, folks.

It's a matter of what Phil said (GOTV).

Yes, indeedy--in states like Maine; who can vote weeks in advance via absentee ballot (although, second round voting won't happen for those folks who don't show up in person).

Esp. in caucus states. It's a real bitch to get people to caucus (even the regulars, who are already registered).

However, Obama's spending $$$ on TV ads in ME (and our delegate count stinks, in comparison to that of other states).

I don't know whether there's phone banking, as I keep my ringer off--never check messages. Caroline Kennedy articulates very well for him.

The state party's voter lists certainly aren't up to snuff, as I unenrolled last Sept.; and they haven't caught on as yet....

Unless it's someone I know on Caller ID...fuggetaboutit.

I hate phones.

That's the other issue w/"polls" & phone banking (complete waste of resources, IMMHO) is that *millions* of folks like me in the USA have dumped their landlines within the past few years.

...moreso w/the so-called youth voters--who freakin' have cell phones embedded in their ears all the time (who may or may not actually show up to caucus).

They're the unknown variable. He seriously needs to get them out to vote (they blipped out in IA for Dean, BTW).

Yes, millions of landline phone numbers being dumped since '04 botches things up quite a bit, re: "poll" validity.

There's also tomorrow's blabfests on the morning boob tube--either of them could slip up, bigtime beffore Tues. (hopefully, Big Dog will continue to run his idiotic rancid mouth).

I abhor him (as well as Billary).

Ugh.

A.B.H.

Correction, you hate fetus killers. After negotiating birth, babies are on their own under Ron Paul's libertarian doctrine of live and let die. I'm calling you and your political hero out on your sanctimonious bullshit .no tom your so wrong your lamp bull is full of holes its personal responsibility that you dont understand,its not up to me or your neightor to take care of your lazy ass or your kids,take care of your own tom, or do you need a green card too! stop the war but not the killing sound progressive to me! wake up tom kill your baby tom you will have to live with it.

5.

mainefem
Sat, 02/02/08

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"3. DANIEL ROONEY
Sat, 02/02/08"

...ever contemplated why women initiate divorces per year in the USA?

Misogynistic attitudes such as yours (and Paul's), that's why.

i dont hate women i love them and baby too! not like the baby killer here. its gays men who hate women lol.

56.

mary vb
Sat, 02/02/08

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Off to console my son. His first broken heart sadly. I'm not certain who is wounded more - the rest of us or him. Poor kid.
its good mary you didnt have tom has your doc he would have aborted that kid. good or bad they are a gift from god tom. how can anyone hurt kids /

3:23 PM Drive by - guess I'm at the bottom today.

Obama is up in MO, NM and DE

http://www.nmfbihop.com/showDiary.do?dia...

Doesn't quite jive with those national polls.

Daniel

put down that bottle

DLC is completely in charge--nowhere for progressives to go.

6:35 pm

sorry phil edward is --------------------------- dead sound like you need a drink, or is it the barn that need clean out.

Got back a little while ago from canvassing.  Went with another lady.  I think we had a good day.  Most of the people were so nice.  We had some who shut the door in our faces.  Lol.  I'm not good with rejection. 

Mostly Republicans (this is Alaska), the ones for Obama were very enthusiastic, said they would definitely be causcasing.  Not one was supporting HRC.

About the polls.  It seems to me polls are not very accurate.  Don't they poll the people who voted before?  What about the young kids with cell phones, the Independents, the Republican crossovers?  Maybe I'm just hoping but I think Obama is going to do better than what is being reported.

GET READY FOR THE PUGS

http://www.counterpunch.org/

If Hillary wins the nomination Republicans will once again plow through the vast acreage of questionable deals and evasive responses developed by the Clintons down the years, the latest ones, such as Bill