Montel never came back after the break and his show has been canceled by Fox.

Howard is first.

Montel was speaking the truth. That will never do on Fox.

running for office is a great personal sacrifice and I applaud every single "you have the power" Dean person for rising to the challenge, and if you would time your entry to maximize your chances for success it might be that you have a head on your shoulders that is up to the job what-ever the office, and never deserve the smear from our resident nay-sayer from the last thread

Hillary's margin in Florida narrowed greatly as election day neared.  Name recognition early voting probably got the win for her.  Down to 4% on election day.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1797

Just want to share one of my favorite Stephen Crane poems

The Heart

In the desert

I saw a creature, naked, bestial,

Who, squatting upon the ground,

Held his heart in his hands,

and ate of it.

I said, "Is it good, friend?"

"It is bitter-bitter," he answered;

"But I like it

"Becasue it is bitter,

"And because it is my heart." 

Actually, Phil, the commentary was on your use of that person as somehow indicative of anything about Obama.

You are the master of Phillogic and anecdotal deception. 

Hillary's margin in Florida narrowed greatly as election day neared.  Name recognition early voting probably got the win for her.  Down to 4% on election day.

MSNBC reported on primary night that Obama won the voters who turned out and even in the ballots cast in the month leading up. But Obama's on such a roll it isn't being trumpeted. 

12:45 PM EST

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/01/opinion/main3778941.shtml

Feb. 1, 2008

(The New Republic) This column was written by John B. Judis

...

Leaving the moral question aside, the fact is that Clinton blundered disastrously in South Carolina. Once Obama had won Iowa and established himself as a credible candidate, his standing among black voters shot upwards, and it became extremely likely that he would win the South Carolina primary. Clinton could have run a decent, above-the-fray campaign in South Carolina that maintained her popularity among African American voters. She would have lost the overall vote by less, and would still have benefited among some whites and Latinos from Obama's visible reliance on black voters to ensure his victory. Instead, she jeopardized both her reputation and her chance of becoming president.

The Presidential candidate is the top of the ticket and Clinton at the top running a 19 state targeted race versus an Obama message of unity does indeed enter into the thinking of someone who is about to sacrifice six months of their life (or more) running for local office. There will be a different environment depending on who heads the ticket. I did have the phone conversation this morning with someone thinking of running that wanted a little encouragement because they saw Clinton as coming out on top in the debate and was wanting to run on a slate that included the positive message of Obama, and not in the polarizing environment of  a Clinton contest. being thoughtful about your chances and your message doesn't deserve insults

12:48 PM EST

http://www.nativetimes.com/index.asp?action=displayarticle&article_id=9295

Native Times endorses Obama for President



editorial 2/1/2008

US Senator Barack Obama is the choice of the Native American Times to become the next president of the United States. This choice made before the all important Super Tuesday election to get as many Native Americans to the polls as possible to push Obama to victory. This is not an anti-Hillary vote but a decision based on what is best for Native Americans.

Alaska Native people will be caucusing; California tribes and Rancherias a long with the huge urban Natives will vote in their primaries; Colorado with the Ute Nation and large Native urban populations will have a primary; the Nez Perce will be voting in the all Democratic caucuses; The Kickapoo, and Prairie Band Potawatomi will be voting in the Kansas Caucuses; The Dakota and Ojibwa people will be voting in Minnesota’s Primaries; Republican Crows, Northern Cheyenne, Blackfeet, Cree and others will be voting in Montana’s caucuses; the Pueblos, Navajos, and Apaches will be voting in New Mexico Primaries; the Seneca, Onondaga, Oneida, Cayuga and other tribes will voting in New York’s primaries; In North Dakota the three Affiliated tribes, Devil’s Lake Sioux, Standing Rock Sioux and Turtle Mountain Chippewa will be voting in their caucuses; Oklahoma with over 300,000 Indians and over 30 federally recognized tribes will be heading to the polls for their primary; in Utah the Navajo, Ute’s, Shoshone, Paiutes and Goshute tribes will vote in their primaries. Over 1 million Indians will be voting on Super Tuesday and they can have a deciding say in who is the next president of the United States. And one man seems to know and care about that fact.

...

He is also the co-sponsor of the all important Indian Health Care Improvement Act.

...

He is also proposing sweeping changes in health care for Native Americans that include mental health. While the economy is the driving issue on the national stage its ‘Health Stupid,’ in Indian Country. People are dying too soon, babies are not making it to adulthood, and diabetes is robbing our way of life in ways never imagined. It’s hard to worry about the paycheck when you are too sick to go anyway.

According to his advisors on Indian issues, he will address the nagging problem of criminal jurisdiction on Indian land. From runaway meth use to domestic violence to murder the problems on Indian land should be the providence of Indian governments where they are able. It is a significant distinction because it is clear some in the federal government doesn’t believe Indian governments are legitimate or evolved enough to handle a more expansive role in criminal jurisdiction. It is part of the change this campaign has represented.

...

sitka if you want to just smear me have at it but leave the tens of thousands who sacrifice their personal life to make this a better country by running for local office out of it, including the person who called me this morning

and if you don't think local and Presidential politics are intertwined you have never done GOTV on Presidential and off year elections

yes people do talk to me before they announce, and they do share their thinking, and if I think it worthy of consideration in the debate here  I bring the concepts forward as real world examples

smear me all you want though, par for the blog

sitka if you want to just smear me have at it

That's what you're doing. And invoking Howard Dean makes it no less transparent. 

1:07 PM EST

boy, team Billary is really upset at Ted Kennedy not endorsing Hillary (and both Bill and Hill don't seem to get about how their tactics are canabalizing to the democrat party and how the response to that is to see more and more dems run away from team Billary):

http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/politics/article/bill_clinton_says_no_child_left_behind_a_train_wreck/4828/

Associated Press
Published: February 1, 2008

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) - Former President Clinton said that if his wife is elected president she would radically change the “No Child Left Behind Act,” which he described as an education disaster initially supported not only by President Bush, but liberal icon Ted Kennedy.
Clinton’s association of Kennedy with the No Child Left Behind Act - a federal education law unpopular with public school teachers, a key Democratic party constituency - came just days after the Massachusetts senator passed over Hillary Rodham Clinton to endorse her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Barack Obama.

Girl Scout/Brownie troop 466 (6 members and 1 leader) from Alt, Colorado has endorsed Obama.

I bring the concepts forward as real world examples

I merely point out that an anecdote about some guy who hitched his wagon to Obama and is now afraid he made the wrong choice is meaningless in regard to what's happening nationally.

I could tell what my mother thinks, but it would say no more either. 

All the talk on the MSM is about where the Edwards supports will "go".  I think the answer is, for super duper Tuesday, most will go nowhere.  Neither Clinton or Obama has done anything to motivate Edwards voters to come vote in a primary for them.  So I think, most will not vote in the primary, or will vote for Edwards if he's still on the ballot (which he will be in most cases) or otherwise sit this one out, content in most cases to vote for whoever emerges from the process, but not feeling any need to select between the remaining standing candidates.  There's no way to measure this (exit polls don't poll those who don't show up), but that's my gut.

Phil,
The person at the top of the ticket skews all races especially in a Pres election year. Obama is drawing new and independentt voters which will help the local office-seekers. Obama wants to expand the party while Billary wants to expand the DLC. I for one are sure if Billary gets nominated, Howard is out of a job. The reason Hillary will loose to McCain (and maybe to Obama)is she is not going to go very far beyond her supporters. I don't think Dems are going to support her the way they would support Obama. McCain may not ne drawing hard-line conservatives but he is drawing from moderates and Repubs who feel abandonded by the current Repub Party.
McCain will get the veteran vote. If the battle is between Hillary and McCain, both progressives and conservatives are left out. Who gets the middle? Either vote for a real Repub or a Repub-Lite?

Obviously, she never taught you how to discuss things intelligently and respectfully rather than constantly smear and put-down people. I think she would be very disappointed if she read your constant negativity here.

To you, Sitka Everyone is poltiically inept or ignorant or worse if they have a different view than your own. Try making a case FOR something rather than putting folks down. You may feel better about yourself and us.

Today is my day. For some unknown reason, my posts have been "chosen" to appear at the bottom of every thread! Wow, lucky me (and unlucky you). I think I'll enjoy it for once!

PLEASE fix the blog, pretty please?????!!!!!!

just got a call from hillary's people here in va. am I going to vote for her. I told them I am undecided.

will vote for obama.

dog wrote: Obama is drawing new and independentt voters which will help the local office-seekers.

Yes, this is the ONLY way we can win against McCain (or Romney), IMO. The attack machine is coming, though, which may result in demoralizing voters again. The question, in my mind, is Can Obama or Clinton bring more people in than they bring out on the other side? If they/we don't bring more people into the process, we lose.

The reason why the NORML statement is so destructive to Obama isn't because of the issue but because it plays into the right-wing smear of Obama and drug use that is coming.

Better to be prepared and have a response because that is coming if Obama gets the nom.

linda b
Fri, 02/01/08

Wow, you just set yourself up for a lot of calls as a #2, possible convert.

BTW, congrats on the award. You deserve it. On your talk, speak from your heart and you'll do fine!

All the talk on the MSM is about where the Edwards supports will "go".  I think the answer is, for super duper Tuesday, most will go nowhere

I've said it would be a wash, and that would make it just as much so.

Michael Ellis
Fri, 02/01/08

LOL. There goes the Brownie vote!

Obviously, she never taught you how to discuss things intelligently and respectfully rather than constantly smear and put-down people.

That would be YOUR mother, Indy.  

Try making a case FOR something rather than putting folks down.

I'll remember that the next you call me a liar or some other gratuitous insult .

Phil has more political experience and gut intuition than anyone on the blog. When he talks, I take notice because more often than not, his views have been insightful and predictive.

So Phillogic to me is the best there is.....

I get it. Every day one of us is "chosen" by the Great Server to be favored and have out posts go to the bottom. Today is my turn! Don't worry, your day is coming......

Sitka wrote: That would be YOUR mother, Indy.  

Do you even see how juvenile that looks? No more comments from me except on substantive posts.

I am really not comfortable being the "chosen" one, folks, to appear at the bottom. Sorry, it's not my fault.... ;-)

1:43 PM EST

http://cbs13.com/local/seiu.backs.barack.2.643497.html

SACRAMENTO (AP) ―

One of California's largest unions is throwing its support to Barack Obama for president.

A spokeswoman for the Service Employees International Union told The Associated Press of the union's decision two days after its first choice, John Edwards, dropped out of the race.

...

So Phillogic to me is the best there is.....

Is there an award for that???

Phil has more political experience and gut intuition than anyone on the blog. When he talks, I take notice because more often than not, his views have been insightful and predictive.

Phil definitely knows his way around the labyrinthine corriders of Iowa politics. Beyond that I haven't seen much acumin or deep knowledge. He often just posts whatever propaganda and talking points are making the rounds in the media, sometimes from right wingers. He also has no problem with changing his viewpoints and rhetoric with the political needs of the moment.

So Phillogic to me is the best there is.....

That's because you too often stand logic on its head. 

Do you even see how juvenile that looks?

Who can help but see how juvenile your attacks look? 

The reason why the NORML statement is so destructive to Obama isn't because of the issue but because it plays into the right-wing smear of Obama and drug use that is coming.

Mountain out of a mole-hill.

Never subscribe to the politics of fear. 

So Phillogic to me is the best there is.....

There are even people who think the world really is flat. 

1:49 PM EST

I don't know much about Iowan local politics but noticed this:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080201/NEWS/80201032

THOMAS BEAUMONT • REGISTER STAFF WRITER • February 1, 2008

Former state Rep. Ed Fallon said today that Iowa's presidential caucus results last month bode well for his challenge of fellow Democrat Leonard Boswell in the 2008 campaign for Iowa's Third Congressional District.

"I think voters made it really clear in the caucuses that they want change," Fallon said during taping of Iowa Public Television's "Iowa Press."

"This is a really good time for me to be running because people are ready for my message and Washington, D.C., desperately needs more members of Congress who really embrace change," he said.

Fallon ran a spirited but unsuccessful bid for the Democratic gubernatorial primary in 2006.

He said Boswell, who was elected in 1996, has become part of the Democratic Party establishment that caucusgoers rejected on Jan. 3 in the caucuses.

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, who received a combined total of 68 percent of support on caucus night, are less associated with dysfunction in Washington, D.C., than New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who placed a close third in the caucuses, Fallon argued.

"That to me is a clear indication of Iowans eager for change," he told reporters later.

...

Phew.  You go away for 3 years and come back to the same ol' squabbling, vitriol, and tech issues.

 Be well.  Go Obama.

2:08 PM EST

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/its-official-alma-rangel-backs-obama/

By Sewell Chan

Alma Rangel, the wife of Representative Charles B. Rangel, has endorsed Barack Obama’s presidential bid Friday, Mr. Obama’s campaign announced. Mr. Rangel, the dean of Harlem politics, is a leading supporter of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

...

I did have the phone conversation this morning with someone thinking of running that wanted a little encouragement because they saw Clinton as coming out on top in the debate and was wanting to run on a slate that included the positive message of Obama, and not in the polarizing environment of  a Clinton contest. being thoughtful about your chances and your message doesn't deserve insults 

No one doubts you had an anecdotal conversation with someone who got cold feet based on his perception of the debate.

The point is.....big deal. It means nothing outside its own context. 

Alma Rangel, the wife of Representative Charles B. Rangel, has endorsed Barack Obama’s presidential bid

That's one way to cover Charlie's ass for the rotten things he's said about a surging Obama. 

"Obama is proposing that the meetings be televised on C-SPAN."  

ROFL... most people don't even watch C-SPAN.

***************************

Sophist describes BO quite well.  Lofty rhetoric and promises stopped turning  my head years ago.  He didn't close last night, and didn't get my vote, which now won't count anyway, so I'm cranky about that.  He was confused talking about immigration; Hillary doesn't want to talk with the *enemy.*  Which is sorta like some BO people here who don't want to talk nicely with some JE people.  Good correlation.She's speaks better, was to the point and barely won the debate.  BO was embarrassingly solicitous to her, but maybe that's his way of reaching across the aisle.

Compromise with greed/power is not win/win....never has been.  Look at Pelosi's compromises?  "You can't trust repugs with your money." You can't trust corporations to compromise unless it's 9/10 their favor.  These guys won't give up power and to think otherwise is naive.

Annilow was genuine.  Others weren't we JE supporters know who you are, especially those who wanted JE outta the race. 

Demeaning Phil only demeans the person who is posting that.

Huron, thank you for that article that looked at the candidates objectively.

Today, I don't really care who wins the nomination.  Either one will be crucified in the gen'l;  And yes, shame on MoveOn.  More fodder.  The infighting will be fodder.  Notice how the repugs always stick with their own, no matter what.  That's why they win.

BO isn't strong enuf yet to be a good prez.  He needs to grown into his own skin and become clear and concise about what he really wants and who is really is.

The last seated senator we elected was JFK.  Dems never learn.  I think at this point, their collusion with the corporations is so deep that the soul of the party is dead.  And Romney is a governor.

I like Indy being at the bottom.  You think clearly and have insights that this blog sorely needs.  :-)

There's a difference between a "wash" and not voting.  Whenever a candidate drops out of a race, there are two groups (to keep this generic): those who move to another candidate, and those who opt out.  Opt out can be influential.  Opt out by conservative evangelicals was part of the GOP crash in 1996.  The idea that any Democrat can beat any Republican this time around is false and dangerous.  Demotivating Democratic (or potential Democratic) voters is playing with fire.  Opt out is like an invisible Nader vote - it's there, influencing the results, but you can't see it.

I think there's going to be enough of a Democratic swing this time around that it can survive if a lot of the Kucinich and Edwards (and those who would have supported others had they run) folks stay home, but if I'm a candidate, I don't count on that.

With the two remaining candidates (sorry Mike), I think neither is well placed to be the "second choice" for Edwards or Kucininch or other progressive/anti-corporate candidates.  It's not that these people are going to vote for McCain (or Romney) it's that they'll be missing when Clinton or Obama needs a few votes to win Ohio or Florida or Colorado or West Virginia.

Hold your nose and vote pretty much worked for Kerry (he got a huge percentage of declared Democrats), but I don't know if it does this time around.  Maybe so, I can't see doing anything to allow a Republican to choose judges for another four years.  But the "Democratic Wing" may just be getting tired of voting for "the lesser of 'who cares'". 

Indy,

Apparently you're not alone at the bottom.

14:25 EST 

There's a difference between a "wash" and not voting.

If there were enough die-hard Edwardiacs to matter, he wouldn't have had to quit. 

2:22 PM EST

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-kendall/obamas-a-mac-clintons-_b_84489.html

Posted February 1, 2008 | 01:36 PM (EST)

With John Edwards out of the race, Democratic voters must squarely confront a choice this election season every bit as stark as that facing millions of Americans each year as they replace their outdated computers: Mac or PC.

We have all seen the ads, we know the right thing to do is to buy a Macintosh, but we hesitate. Will I be able to open all my PC files? Will it be able to run Outlook? Am I really going to make those photo albums and movies anyway? Am I cool enough for a Mac?

Obama, like the Mac, seems almost too good to be true.

...

But Democrats are still deeply divided. Having been in the political wilderness for much of the last 30 years, we are, understandably, a risk adverse bunch. We cling to Hillary like that old-reliable PC that we keep on our desks. We respond to her message: she's tested, able to handle every dirty trick Republicans will throw at her, ready on day one.

All true, but there's also the darker side of the story. As the hipster in the Mac commercial loves to point out, a PC isn't actually all that reliable: reboot, reboot. We all experienced the rollercoaster ride that was the eight years of Bill Clinton's presidency

...

We think we know what we'll get with Hillary -- more of that '90s show -- and right now that doesn't seem bad. Plus no one is better at bare knuckles politics than the Clintons, and that may still be required to win the White House. What if Obama loses a foreign policy fight with John McCain, then where will we be. What if he can't navigate the slings and arrows of Washington, and ends up slinking back to Chicago in 2013 the way Jimmy Carter slunk back to Plains in 1981. No Democrat can afford that.

But we can't afford another four years of Washington infighting where nothing gets done either. For me, Macintosh sealed the deal last week when they introduced that new paper-thin, feather-light laptop. After clunking around my 10 pound, 2 inch-thick Windows job for the last 8 years, enough is enough. Perhaps for Democrats, seeing Obama trounce Clinton in South Carolina -- after taking everything the Clintons' could throw his way -- will have a similar effect.

2:25 PM EST

45.

PC or Mac ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1U9J9JPxrA

Sitka
Fri, 02/01/08

Edwards suspended his campaign for a number of reasons, one of which was to allow a one-on-one choice for Super Tuesday and bolster a strong Democrat to run against the rethugs. He played it smart, though, and got commitments from them on poverty issues.

I would like to see him endorse before Tuesday. Guess who? We'll see if he does.....

I was simply regretting the lost opportunity Obama had when in the national spotlight to make a direct pitch to the some one in six primary voters suddenly undecided because Edwards had dropped out and I didn't see him closing that deal in the debate.

Clinton has been in the mid to upper forties in national polls and this is the very first national primary, she needs less of an uptick to get to fifty plus one than Obama does (and with only two in the race that is all it takes).

a wash means Clinton wins (unless a vigorous all out GOTV gets those new voters to the polls)

2:38 PM EST

... 

I would like to see him endorse before Tuesday. Guess who? We'll see if he does.....

+++

"Guess who?" - wow, eh !:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guess_Who

...

Oh this is rich.  He's comparing BO to Macs and says this:

"For me, Macintosh sealed the deal last week when they introduced that new paper-thin, feather-light laptop.   LOL 

* rdorgan
Fri, 02/01/08

LOL. American woman, wasn't that their song?

Sorry if I misrepresented your views on Edwards; I do remember you saying he was your second choice. But I have legitimate questions/problems with obama.

And even more problems with Clinton. Sigh.

Indy Steve
Fri, 02/01/08

+++

Indy Steve -

No problem.  But too much of an axe to grind, can get a bit grinding after awhile (if you know what I mean [smile]).  I know you mean well.

IMO there's a stark choice next week on Super Tuesday, between voting safe for a PC (team Billary) or voting, with a tinge of risk involved, for a Mac (Obama).

Last prez election, I went against my own nature and went for risk, for the unknown, by voting Mac (Dean) over what I could consider a PC (my own U.S. Senator Kerry).  I got a lot of flak in my own state for doing that, just like now am getting the same flak here in MA for supporting Obama over Clinton (MA is like their second home to the Clintons, vacations on Martha's Vineyard Islands over the years).

BTW - "American Woman" is indeed a great song but my favorite is "Share The Land":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLQJ4toj-JY

Edwards suspended his campaign for a number of reasons

Indeed. Lack of voters. 

Popping in. Read some old threads and saw that Judy for Dean said a difference was that Obama voted against on the Kyl Lieberman Iran vote.

That isn't true.

And I'm sure of the candidates they took the time to vote, they would like credit for it.



U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 1st Session


as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary
Question: On the Amendment (Kyl Amdt. No. 3017 as Modified )
Vote Number: 349 Vote Date: September 26, 2007, 12:44 PM
Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Amendment Agreed to
Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 3017 to S.Amdt. 2011 to H.R. 1585 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008)
Statement of Purpose: To express the sense of the Senate regarding Iran.
Vote Counts: YEAs 76
NAYs 22
Not Voting 2
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State



Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Bro