You know Dean is first. 

Excellent. Thank you.


Superman wears Al Gore pajamas.

oops. Sorry Tom. Looks like I bumped you this time.

Phil wrote "Firefox seemed to have a personal objection, based on personality at some event, . . ."

I suppose you could say that.  On June 10, 2007, FiReFoX wrote "Cheap shot at Kucinich? Fox News Kucinich? Sorry, I like many of his positions but when I met him in person he was a total @ss.Has a reputation of treating staff like crap. No one that I know of who worked on his campaign in 04 is supporting him now, but I encourage everyone to support whomever they want."  

We need a visionary leader to make sure we adopt a visionary treaty, AL!

It all must be true.


:)

I'm getting vertigo from free falling.

Howard Dean supporter in '04 now heading up Dennis Kucinich campaign in NH. Hope she took the training.

Tom, Firefox saying it here then on a post is an observation. You repeating it is sort of like gossip rather than statement. What was your point ? That it has veracity as fact rather than personal opinion because you have repeated it. I don't think so. I will note again for me all my posts have an implied IMHO.

Bush will veto increase CAFE standards. See, that tiny compromise of an increase and he's still going to veto that. To heck with our future, security and the environment....onwards his financiers of Special Interests.







AL..........WE NEED YOU!!!

8. roflmao


I purposely stopped typing to give you some breathing room.

 Obama Rally Saturday on C-Span at 4:30 p.m.

That according to C-Span channels

John McCain may still get the nomination since the rest of that bunch have serious flaws each. At least he believes in Science, and might well sign a global warming protocol. It would be nice if all of our candidates would announce that intention.

well, not breathing room.........footing, one might say. :)



Please everyone, email Al Gore's petition to everyone you know....I'm going to go add that to the post.


This would be an exciting piece of history. Our government may not be acting, but we will show that we want this.

Phil wrote "Tom, Firefox saying it here then on a post is an observation. You repeating it is sort of like gossip rather than statement. What was your point ? That it has veracity as fact rather than personal opinion because you have repeated it. I don't think so."

Interesting that you should bring this up, because I was asked almost this precise question yesterday.  Here's what transpired:

"Because this is a forum for political discussion, and I'm interested in what people know about candidates.  John said he only cares about policy agendas, whereas I think judging a presidential contender requires much more.  Otherwise, why wouldn't this whole community have chosen Kucinich over Dean in 2004?

"You call what FiReFoX witnessed firsthand an old false rumor.  If you have met with him at length or worked with him personally, you're in a position to provide your own credible refutation but if not, I'm uncertain why I should disbelieve her."

So you can see I'm in a spot.  I can take into consideration or reject the opinion of someone who met him and feels he is rude and obnoxious but, if I reject it, what is the reason?  Has someone who has spent significant time with him or worked for him provided a testimonial that none of this is true?  To my knowledge, no.  Has anyone with personal knowledge posted to suggest that FiReFoX's observations are biased or lack credibility for some reason?  Quite the contrary.  FiReFoX said she likes many of Kucinich's policy positions.

Under those circumstances, unless the opinion was of no importance to me, why shouldn't I give it credence or take it into account while forming my own judgment about who should be the country's next leader? 

BTW........ANOTHER THANK YOU AL GORE,

Google's Next Gig: Engergy

Google Will Spend hundreds of millions of dollars on techonologies that harness solar, geothermal, wind, and other renewable energy sources, the company's co-founders said last week.

I did an interview today with a reporter who is from Britain explaining the caucus rules and she couldn't understand the public nature of it until I compared it to the House of Commons which does business in a similar fashion of public voicing of opinion, rather than secret ballot. In keeping with the Town Hall traditions of New England as well where local people meet in a public space face to face to decide local issues. and I used the analogy of multi party states like Italy or Israel forming a coalition government as a model of how "non-viable" groups could join together during the re-alignment period and either join a viable group or try to become so themselves like in a ruling coalition.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-main-political-parties-in-israel.html

deal making of that sort is in the oldest of democratic traditions, I like the fact that in Iowa it is out in the open in front of neighbors

I find Bill Richardson the guy I'd most want "to have a beer with" if you want to base your choices on that kind of observation. but I think Firefox had some dirt on his dealings as well.

It appears that we have no perfect candidate.  Åre there perfect spouses/friends/relatives?

Edwards is growing on me and I wish fervently that IA and NH would look deeply at Dennis and Dodd, who are very worthy IMO.

Mainstream American democratic voters are now *progressive.* We are still nominating moderate dems who have shifted into repugs, ie Hillary, Obama.  We need to have first voting in progressive communities and states.  One day IRV would be best.  This voting dream has turned into a nightmare for most of the country that doesn't have a voice.  :-(

Putzco has tried to shift the whole country to the right, but the citizens still want stem cell research, end of war etc.  So it's the righties who are pulling us off center and the early voters are actually believing that people like Clinton are dems, when in reality, they are playing to a rightie base, while ignoring us.

Is this an apocryphal story?  I'm not aware of any occasion when Moore has made derogatory statements about Dean.

 You weren't paying attention Tom. I believe Michael made the remark just before or just after the Iowa caucuses, when asked why he wasn't a Dean supporter.

Unlike you, I don't save up links and quotes with which to play "gotcha" at a later date, so I can't give you chapter and verse. I do remember the remark though, as it seemed uncharacteristic of Michael.

BAGHDAD  - Iraqi legislators suspended parliamentary sessions Thursday for the rest of the month to mark the Muslim religious season - the end of much-delayed efforts to pass U.S.-backed legislation aimed at achieving national reconciliation this year.

____________________________________________________________________________

Crikey.........these turkeys are getting as lazy and as shiftless as American politicians.............what a frickin waste of time, money and lives.................

Huron John
Thu, 12/06/07
5:40 pm

___________________________________________________________________________

i dont recall THAT quote, but MM was unimpressed by Dean i recall.................

If I drank, I'd like to have a beer with Mrs. Kucinich - damn, I forgot her name.  I fell for her when I saw her wearing her Carmen Miranda hat at the Latino speech.  Fabulous, gorgeous, smart, funny and gutsy.

I bet she's be a hell of a tango dancer with that sense of drama she has. 

John wrote "You weren't paying attention Tom. I believe Michael made the remark just before or just after the Iowa caucuses, when asked why he wasn't a Dean supporter."

Quoting someone as calling Dean and arrogant prick, and believing someone made the remark without a source are such different propositions that I have to remain skeptical.  My research shows Michael Moore to have been relatively complimentary regarding Dean.  I may not have been paying attention as you suggest, but the fact that our memories differ wouldn't provide the necessary evidence that that is the case.

John wrote "Unlike you, I don't save up links and quotes with which to play 'gotcha' at a later date, so I can't give you chapter and verse."

Well, you have to admit it would have been helpful in this instance if you did.

CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER IS BUSH'S POODLE ON GLOBAL WARMING

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071206.wbalimain06/BNStory/Front/

They are fast gaining an image as the black-hatted villains of the Bali conference. Three countries – Canada, Japan and the United States – are sparking the greatest wrath of environmentalists in the early days of the conference on global warming.

There are growing signs that the Harper government has formed an unofficial troika with Tokyo and Washington at the negotiations. Using similar language in their statements, the three countries seem to have co-ordinated their message, stressing that economic growth is just as valuable as the environment.

The tacit support from Canada and Japan has been a boon for the United States, which had been left isolated as the only country refusing to sign Kyoto after the new Australian government signed the treaty this week.

“Japan seems to be taking harder positions with tougher language, and Canada is coming in behind, supporting them, so the U.S. doesn't have to do much,” said Dale Marshall, climate-change policy analyst at the David Suzuki Foundation.

“It's clear that Canada and Japan are talking to each other and using the same language. And Japan seems completely averse to doing anything without the United States.”

Another environmentalist, Steven Guilbeault of the Équiterre group, said the Canadian position has been poorly received by most other countries. “It's a poison pill, and it makes a lot of countries very nervous,” he said. “Canada is saying it wants to do less. Everyone is disappointed and appalled by it.”

Japan and Canada have dominated the “Fossil of the Day awards” – sarcastic prizes given every day by environmentalists to the worst-performing nation at the Bali conference.

(video) Al Gore's Martin Luther King Day Speech at Constitution Hall: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...

17. Cool Phil.

It's an interesting ploy to require someone to provide evidence to your pleasure. John is right, but you'll need to look it up.
You could get esophageal spasms from regurgitating the same old stuff all the time. lol, IMHO of course.

As I remember the "arrogant prick" quote it was more of a mutual recognition thing than a put-down.

Seashell I agree completely with your assessment of Mrs. K. She would be a fantastic First Lady. Im'm sure she has impacted the Senator deep in the soul.

57   57   57   57   57 

That's the number of filibusters the Senate republicans have blocked bills with.

That doesn't include the number of times they have stopped a bill. (The Senate rules allow for any senator to stop a bill iin its tracks by using this maneuver.)

This ought to give plenty of ammo for any Dem running against any of the senators running for re-election. They all vote in tantem for filibusters 100%.

I remember Michael Moore saying he went to hear Dean speak. He came in with an open checkbook and left without giving a dime. He DID NOT LIKE HOWARD. But I have no source - just my recollection. I'm a tad protective over Howard so it takes me some time to forgive someone who once didn't like him. LOL

joan in Fl.

Ccould Reid cause the Senate to revert to the old system of actually having to fillibuster instead of just requesting 60 votes? Maybe they wouldn't be so anxious to do so many.

21.

seashell :-)
Thu, 12/06/07
5:44 pm

Her name is Elizabeth.

She had a glass of red wine with us when she visited Fresno last weekend. She also went to visit the homeless. A dear friend escorted her to where they live. She wanted to meet them too. Elizabeth Kucinich is an amazing human being.

mary vb
Thu, 12/06/07
6:24 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes, I recall that visit to hear dean speak, but I dont think Moore didnt like him, I just think Moore was not overly impressed with what dean had to say..I cannot recall the specifics, but Moore was seeking a solid candidate in which to throw his support and money, dean didnt do it for Moore...............

Ive seen and met Howard Dean up close and personal......Ive seen his plusses and minus'also......his temper could get testy at times with certain types and that could easily throw off a person like Moore..I do not know.............

You may recall, another figure of note, George Soros, who i also had the pleassure to meet and chat (well briefly that is) also would not get behond Dean, although he told me he liked him.......

vb wrote "[Michael Moore] DID NOT LIKE HOWARD. But I have no source - just my recollection."

Contrary to everyone else commenting, I have no recollection, only sources.  Here's part of what Moore wrote on 1/20/04:

"I can see, just from surfing the web, the debilitating affect the landslide loss in Iowa had on so many people who had placed so much hope in the man who created a grassroots revolution and was unrelenting in his attacks on Bush and on the war. If having the most volunteers, the most money (all small contributions from average citizens), and the boldest message can't win an election, say Dean's followers, then we might as well just give up.

"As one who does not support Dean, I would like to say this to you: DON'T GIVE UP. You have done an incredible thing. You inspired an entire nation to stand up to George W. Bush. Your impact on this election will be felt for years to come. Every bit of energy you put into Dr. Dean's candidacy was -- and is -- worth it. He took on Bush when others wouldn't. He put corporate America on notice that he is coming after them. And he called the Democrats out for what they truly are: a bunch of spineless, wishy-washy appeasers who have sold out the working people of America. Everyone in every campaign owes you and your candidate a huge debt of thanks.

"Though I am backing Clark because I personally prefer his manner and his stands on everything from jailing polluters to taxing the rich (not to mention his electability), the worst thing that could happen now would be for the Dean revolution to come to an end. If you have backed or worked for Dean, you must understand the remarkable things you have done and what you have accomplished . . . ."

" . . . .

" I am convinced that the electorate in [Iowa] was invigorated by the Dean campaign -- whose entire message was that you CAN make a difference. Just the fact that you have people thinking this way is a gift you have given to America, a nation where the majority, in the past, have given up and refused to vote. I believe that you and Howard Dean will be credited with waking up a near-dead voting public. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

"75% of those voting in Iowa said that they are 'anti-war.' And who do we have to thank for that? Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich. They put the war and its illegality and immorality on the Iowa map in this election year. They pushed Kerry and the rest to take strong anti-war stands (even though Kerry, et. al. had initially voted for the war). Some changed their positions, which we welcomed (Edwards and Kerry voted against the $87 billion Bush got to continue the war). Although Kerry got the most anti-war votes and Dean and Edwards split the rest, Dean was the man who converted them. Those who chugged through the streets and farms of Iowa preaching peace deserve our gratitude.

"Of course, the problem here, as I pointed out with all due respect in my last letter, is that for whatever reason, Dean himself is not going to give middle America the comfort level they need in choosing who they want in the Oval Office. Dean, as good and as right as he is, just isn't the man, on a personal level, to get Job One done: Bush Removal. That's OK. Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land. But he was still Moses."

Mary vb......

you're right, he did say that. Also, I believe he walked out, I remember somebody asked him some time later why he did that, and he said something to the effect that he wouldn't have done it if he knew then etc. don't know where that was said though.

That's great Tom but the interview I saw was prior to Iowa not after Iowa. I never could understand why he didn't get behind Dean.

http://www.markfiore.com/

http://www.dennis4president.com/index.ph...

Saturday, December 01, 2007

Meet Elizabeth Kucinich - California Campaign Skills Academy
12:30 – 12:45 PST California Campaign Skills Academy

Drop in to meet and greet local Democrats who are attending a training sponsored by the California Democratic Party.

La Palmas Business Park,
Labor's Union Hall 294,
5431 E. Hedges

----

Elizabeth Kucinich - Food Not Bombs - California
1:15 – 1:45 p.m PST
Food Not Bombs feeds the homeless at
Roeding Park (Olive Avenue just east of the 99 freeway)

----

Elizabeth Kucinich - Hmong-American National Convention
2:00 – 2:30 / 3:00 PST

Hmong-American National Convention

Plaza Building
2220 Tulare St.,
Fresno, CA 93721, Downtown Fresno

Mrs. Kucinich to address 100 Hmong community activists from all over the United States

---

Elizabeth Kucinich - Fresno - Annual Peace Community Crafts Faire

3:00pm PST
Annual Peace Community Crafts Faire
sponsored by the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom.

First Congregational Church
2131 N. Van Ness Blvd
Fresno

Mrs. Kucinich to speak on peace and social justice issues. All peace groups in community participating. Expect at least 400 people.


---

Elizabeth Kucinich At Fresno Fund Raiser

5:00 pm PST - House Party Fundraiser for Kucinich hosted by Jean Hays.

5493 N. Roosevelt
Fresno, CA 93704.

Re: Bali

Al, it's time to step up for global warming if these big 3 are going against it.

And I used to like Canada a lot! 

GORE FOR PRESIDENT DAMMMMMITTTTTT 

vb wrote "I never could understand why he didn't get behind Dean."

He liked Clark more.  Here's Moore writing on 9/23/03:

"I sat in a room with Howard Dean a couple of months ago and heard him say he supports the death penalty 'in certain cases.' He probably believes he needs to say this to get elected. What he needs to hear from us are the facts about how many innocent people have been released from death row, people who were about to be executed. We need to show Gov. Dean the right way to address this issue -- by calling for a moratorium on the death penalty until, if ever, this problem of potentially executing the innocent can be solved.

"When I watched Howard Dean give his speech announcing his candidacy, he spoke for nearly a half hour. How many times did he say the word 'Iraq'?

"None.

"And he's supposed to be the anti-war candidate! Well, what I'm saying is, let's cut him some slack. He clearly has been against the war, even if he did fail to mention it (the #1 issue of the day) in his speech. We cannot be so quick to want to dismiss him or sink back into our cynicism of believing that all politicians suck. And when Dean says he wouldn't cut the Pentagon budget, he just needs to be educated. So the best way to support Dean right now is to let him know how you feel about these issues . . . . "

Don't misunderstand.  Moore never swooned over Dean, but I remain totally unaware that he either called Dean an arrogant prick or thought of Dean as one.

If Gore won't run, I'm tempted to vote for the ladies.  Of the 2 in the top tier,  I'd go with Elizabeth K.

Thank you, Susan. 

How about running the wives instead? 

Speaking of arrogant p***ks, has anyone seen putziepoo today? :-)

We still have to scroll up 3 or 4 to get the last comment.

seashell wrote "How about running the wives instead?"

I think Bill Clinton is hip to that.

Susan, Bradley Whitford is going to be on Rachel Maddow, AAR in a moment to talk about the No Dirty Tricks campaign.

44.

Thanks Linda

47.

He should be required to wear a blue dress.

49....He can't. He gave it to Rudy. :)

Michael Moore quote:  responding to a Dean supporter who was losing hope over the Iowa vote..

"I was crushed when I read this. Her despair, her sense of "what's the use?" was something I'm sure many Dean supporters are feeling today. I can see, just from surfing the web, the debilitating affect the landslide loss in Iowa had on so many people who had placed so much hope in the man who created a grassroots revolution and was unrelenting in his attacks on Bush and on the war. If having the most volunteers, the most money (all small contributions from average citizens), and the boldest message can't win an election, say Dean's followers, then we might as well just give up.

As one who does not support Dean, I would like to say this to you: DON'T GIVE UP. You have done an incredible thing. You inspired an entire nation to stand up to George W. Bush. Your impact on this election will be felt for years to come. Every bit of energy you put into Dr. Dean's candidacy was -- and is -- worth it. He took on Bush when others wouldn't. He put corporate America on notice that he is coming after them. And he called the Democrats out for what they truly are: a bunch of spineless, wishy-washy appeasers who have sold out the working people of America. Everyone in every campaign owes you and your candidate a huge debt of thanks.

Though I am backing Clark because I personally prefer his manner and his stands on everything from jailing polluters to taxing the rich (not to mention his electability), the worst thing that could happen now would be for the Dean revolution to come to an end. If you have backed or worked for Dean, you must understand the remarkable things you have done and what you have accomplished:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-01-20

----- Original Message -----
From: U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:28 PM
Subject: Senator Boxer: Stop the Whale Hunt


NEWS FROM BARBARA BOXER, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA

Dear Friend:

I recently led a bipartisan group of Senators in calling on Japan to reconsider the scale of a hunt for approximately 1,000 whales and to abandon plans to kill 100 vulnerable and endangered whales. The text of our letter to Japanese Ambassador to the United States Ryozo Kato can be found below.

Sincerely,

Barbara Boxer
United States Senator
-------------

November 29, 2007

The Honorable Ryozo Kato
Ambassador Extraordinary & Plenipotentiary of Japan to the United States
2520 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20008

Dear Ambassador Kato:

We write today to respectfully request that Japan reconsider its impending hunt of approximately 1,000 whales, including fin and protected humpback whales. As we understand it, a Japanese whaling fleet is en route to the Antarctic Ocean to hunt these mammals over the next few months for what Japan has called research purposes. We are particularly concerned about the size and scope of the hunt, and the targeting of 50 humpback whales. This is the first time Japan has sought to kill this particular species since it was protected by a worldwide moratorium in 1966.

First and foremost, we believe there are other means available for Japan to undertake scientific research on whales and whale populations. In 1986, the International Whaling Commission banned commercial whaling, while providing an exemption for scientific research. While we acknowledge the exemption, we question the necessity of conducting a hunt of this magnitude, and are strongly opposed to the targeting of protected species. Non-lethal techniques exist that allow collection of necessary data to better understand whale populations, and we encourage Japan to conduct its research using these methods.

We also worry that Japan’s proposed actions could inflict significant harm on vulnerable whale populations. Whales are highly migratory animals and a shared global resource. Humpback whales, known for their unique vocalizations and athleticism, were once hunted to the brink of extinction. And although populations have increased, the World Conservation Union currently lists the humpback whale and the fin whale as vulnerable and endangered, respectively.

As such, we join the growing chorus of world leaders and environmental experts in asking Japan to reconsider its decision to conduct this hunt, or, at a minimum, significantly scale back its scope. We also ask that Japan immediately cease the killing of both humpback and fin whales, and only employ non-lethal techniques for studying these populations. By pursuing these actions, Japan can continue to make significant scientific contributions, while conserving and protecting these important species.

Thank you for your consideration of this important request.

Sincerely,

Barbara Boxer
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
Olympia J. Snowe
John F. Kerry
Joe Lieberman
Maria Cantwell
Ron Wyden
Russ Feingold

Elizabeth Kucinich for First Lady by Posted by Mike Rhodes

Elizabeth Kucinich, whose husband Dennis is running for President, was in Fresno last Saturday. The following is a report by Jay Hubbell, who helped organize the Fresno visit.

full story: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/12...

Oh this is soooo rich.

Teen pregnancies are up and the advocates of abstinence are saying that it's becuz young people are eager to have children and don't see any point in waiting.

Yeah, right, you bubbleheads! 

Do these people hate sex?  Unbelievable. 

"Morman faith...of...my father...our Morman values...I'll be true to them" ~Mitt Romney

Let me tell you blue folks, Mitt is all about Mitt.   He refused his salary as Governor of Massachusetts, and I said that he should be made to take that salary - so that he KNOWS who he serves.  He didn't serve the Commonwealth during his term, as he traveled the land (visiting Republican states) and dis'ed Massachusetts at every opportunity with "commie, pinko, liberal, fag"

Those are Mitts values, blue state folks.

SPECIAL COMMENT BY KEITH TONIGHT

on putzie's lies.    :-) 

Joe Biden, Howard Dean and Dennis & Elizabeth Kucinich:

Caught behind the scenes at the Nevada Democratic Debate, presidential hopefuls and other Democrat operatives candidly respond to hard questions about Peak Oil, living sustainably, and reopening an investigation of the events of 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjiGuOsKr...