Howard and Jim are first, as is John Edwards. Stay above the fray.

,as is John Edwards and Barack Obama

(thanks linda for the fortitude comment on the previous thread - stay warm everyone, this winter might turn out to be a cold one)

A right wing leader once said they would stop at nothing to get themselves in charge.   He said they must be willing to be "obnoxious." 

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1675

They have succeeded thoroughly in being obnoxious.

"We will maintain a constant barrage of criticism against the Left. We will attack the very legitimacy of the Left. We will not give them a moment's rest. We will endeavor to prove that the Left does not deserve to hold sway over the heart and mind of a single American. We will offer constant reminders that there is an alternative, there is a better way. When people have had enough of the sickness and decay of today's American culture, they will be embraced by and welcomed into the New Traditionalist movement. The rejection of the existing society by the people will thus be accomplished by pushing them and pulling them simultaneously.

We will use guerrilla tactics to undermine the legitimacy of the dominant regime. We will take advantage of every available opportunity to spread the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with the existing state of affairs. For example, we could have every member of the movement put a bumper sticker on his car that says something to the effect of "Public Education is Rotten; Homeschool Your Kids." This will change nobody's mind immediately; no one will choose to stop sending his children to public schools immediately after seeing such a bumper sticker; but it will raise awareness and consciousness that there is a problem. Most of all, it will contribute to a vague sense of uneasiness and dissatisfaction with existing society. We need this if we hope to start picking people off and bringing them over to our side. We need to break down before we can build up. We must first clear away the flotsam of a decayed culture."

Good morning.  Quick drive by.

Re: progressive values.  Why don't we keep it simple and re-work the 10 Commandments?  The fundies would perhaps *get it*  and certainly the neo-cons have broken them over and over.

1. Thou shalt not kill - and then talk about Iraq

2.  etc etc etc. 

We need to draw comparisons and not tie ourselves into knots about how to effectively fight the values voters.  When they talk about killing fetuses, we talk about the  killing of children in Iraq and how many more of them we've killed than have been terminated in abortions.  Just keep throwing the sh*t back in their faces. Talk about how many of THEIR kids aren't being insured and may die.

We're not countering their illogic successfully.  They've got the bible.  We need to be smarter than that.  My 2 cents.

Floridagal, that's truly scary and like I said, we need to be smarter than the Traditionalist Movement.  So now we're going from compassionate conservatism to traditionalism?  Yikes!

Perhaps it's time to introduce Buddhism into the American consciousness....the path  of Love, the way of Truth.  How often do you hear ANY candidate talk about love?  Never!  Maybe Gravel and Kucinich at times........... 

Democrats - the party of Love, Truth and Forgiveness.  Not true of course,  but those RW nut jobs need to be put in their proper place -   We need to start fighting smart and hard and dirty in a clean way.  Calling ourselves the party of Love and Truth is dirty/clean.  IMO

And we need to point out over and over that the opposite of fear is not courage; it's love.  When we call them fearmongers, we need to also say that fearmongering is lovedestroying.

Love appears to be a four letter word in this society. 

You're anti-gay marriage?  What about love thy neighbor? 

WHY DON'T WE EVER TALK ABOUT LOVE ANYWHERE?   

huckabee has some 'splainen to do on the release of a prisoner who went out and raped and killed a woman. bad, bad judgement.

If you really care, you would help me to help phil forgit win a seat in congress from the 1st district. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you can phone from home and help us out here.

Write letters to IA supporting my candidate?  Not a chance, unless DFA gets behind ONE man and then endorses. 

Again, dems are all over the map.  No wonder we lose.

Besides, my dem isn't running, and I have no vote in the primary.  I could write thousands of letters for Dennis and he'd still not get on the map.  The CM has already made up the minds of the Iowa voters for them, IMO.   I seriously doubt that there are any progressive voters in IA.  Certainly not enuf to nominate a true progressive.  It's busines and AIPAC as usual.  What a pity. Edwards needs to withdraw his support for AIPAC before I vote for him.  If he does that, he gets my vote.  

Phil, can you suggest that to him?   

Nuff said. 

Newport News, VA--One week before the Virginia special election, General Wes Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, issued the following endorsement for Philip Forgit in a message to supporters across the country. General Clark joins an impressive list of leaders endorsing Forgit, including Governor Tim Kaine, Governor Mark Warner, and Senator Jim Webb.

"In just 7 days, voters in Virginia will have a chance to flip VA-1 for Democrats -- click here to contribute to Philip Forgit's campaign today!

"In 7 days, you have a chance to show why Virginia is leading our country forward. On December 11, voters will head to the polls in Virginia's 1st congressional district for a special election.

"Iraq war veteran and Bronze Star recipient Philip Forgit has a real chance to flip this seat for Democrats. His team is making its final decisions on advertising and field. We need to give them a boost in these final days to make sure they can reach every single voter in VA-1.

"Philip served with a Naval Special Warfare Unit as an advisor to the Iraqi Army in 2005-2006. A Naval Reservist, Philip was mobilized from his former job as a 4th grade teacher at Rawls Byrd Elementary, where he won the 2005 National Education Association (NEA) Award for Teaching Excellence.

Philip has shown himself to be a leader of outstanding abilities -- in the classroom, in the battlefield, and now I hope you'll help me bring his leadership to Congress.  Our nation is at war, and we need leaders in Washington who know how wars should be fought -- not from theory but from experience.

http://www.philipforgit.com/12407.htm

Just a reminder that we need help with the Phil Forgit campaign with phone banking and canvassing. If you can help, it would be appreciated.Please email Jamey at Jamey@forgit2007.com or call her at 336 287 7747 to get a list of people to call. Linda B

huckabee has some 'splainen to do on the release of a prisoner who went out and raped and killed a woman. bad, bad judgement.  

+++

linda b -

Well, Romney has had something of a "Willy Horton" experience too, in the likes of released Daniel Tavares Jr.:

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071130/OPINION/711300310

YOUR VIEW: Tuttman deserved better from Romney

Before the Iowa caucus and the New Hampshire primary, someone should take the time to give former Gov. Mitt Romney a basic civics lesson. As part of the education of Mitt, he will have to be instructed on the importance of the rule of law.

In our country, and in Massachusetts, there are three co-equal branches of government: the executive, legislative and judicial branches. Each is independent of the other. Each serves a vital role in our democracy.

Recently, the former governor called for Superior Court Judge Kathe Tuttman to resign from the bench after a tragic incident. It is alleged that Daniel Tavares, who was released on bail by Judge Tuttman in July 2007, killed two young, vibrant residents of Seattle while he was out on bail. Tavares had been in prison before the July bail hearing because he had been convicted of manslaughter. When his hearing took place, Tavares had completed his entire sentence on the manslaughter conviction. He would have been a free man but for two assaults that were alleged to have been committed during his incarceration.

In July, when he appeared before Tuttman, Tavares, a free man, was facing new charges stemming from the prison incident. A reasonable bail is a right guaranteed to all citizens of the country by the U.S. Constitution. The Massachusetts bail law carries with it the presumption that a person charged with a crime should be released without paying bail unless there are extenuating circumstances.

When Judge Tuttman conducted the Tavares bail appeal, the prosecution did not offer any evidence that there were special circumstances warranting deviation from the letter and spirit of the Massachusetts bail law. In contrast, Tavares' attorney presented several reasons why his client ought to be released. Because of the absence of proof contradicting defense counsel, Judge Tuttman followed the law.

Former Gov. Romney should have taken the time to acquaint himself with all the facts before calling upon one of his appointees to resign. Judge Tuttman is a thoughtful straight arrow and compassionate jurist who deserved better treatment. However, since Gov. Romney showed little interest in or respect for the judicial branch of government while in office, it should come as no surprise that he would grandstand on such an emotionally charged issue. It is comforting to know that this particular leopard hasn't changed his spots. Mitt has rarely allowed the facts to get in the way of telling a story his way.

Gov. Romney's lack of respect for the rule of law and pandering to an uneducated media is disturbing at many levels. Instead of offering heartfelt support to the survivors of this horrific double homicide, he opted to play politics with the one branch of government that recent history has demonstrated is critical to a functioning democracy.

The wannabe president clearly gained no insight into the workings of a democracy from events in Pakistan. Without a free and independent judiciary, tyranny will almost certainly follow. If Mitt Romney understood this, then he would be praising Judge Tuttman's courage, rather than taking cheap shots.

Guiliani is airing a  TV ad with a brilliant (sic) and new (sic) idea --

-- low taxes --

-- if he's elected President.

How 1980's ish.

YouTube
December 5, 2007

"National support for Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton and Republican Rudy Giuliani significantly eroded over the past month," USA TODAY Washington bureau chief Susan Page writes.

Young Pakistanis: Bin Laden Is A CIA Creation
Good Morning America gets more than it bargained for in a feature on young people in Pakistan

Infowars.net | December 4 , 2007
Steve Watson

An ABC news piece that ran yesterday morning attracted attention after four Pakistanis who were being interviewed about the attitudes and life of young people in Pakistan declared Osama Bin Laden to be a creation of western intelligence and stressed that Islamic extremist attitudes towards the west were virtually non existent in their country before 9/11.

ABC have since pulled the video footage from their website, but an industrious prisonplanet forum member grabbed the footage and uploaded it to youtube.

"Who is Osama Bin Laden?" One girl asked Chris Cuomo, "He's just a character created by America" she concluded.

Floridagal......

Yes, The corporate media helped create the decay in the culture. Profit propells it. We support their "right" of speech, etc., therefore we are the ones thought to be causing it. That is the trap we are in. We need to relate the war to the decay around us, unemployment, inflation, infrastructure etc. We are made to look like we are more concerned about the rights of pornographers, for instance
and some perceive that to be the main cause of the decay of our culture, not war or power profits.

Fw: Stop S1959: if passed you could be labeled a terrorist

---

Stop S 1959 in Joe Lieberman's Homeland Security Committee:

Tell your Senators to protect Americans from Big Brother and from Joe-McCarthy-like witch-hunts.

"If this bill is passed, your words and actions could be considered terrorism.

S. 1959 EVISCERATES FREE SPEECH, and empowers the govt. to declare ANYTHING they deem an "extremist belief system", instantly make you a terrorist, resulting in stripping of US citizenship, torture, and/or execution, with no habeas corpus rights, no ability to challenge even in the US Supreme Court."-Bill L.

Read about the dangers at any of these 4 sites:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-gir...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticl...

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkfra...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007...

It is now in the Homeland Security Committee.

Please call and email the members of this Committee and your Senators to demand a NO vote as too invasive of American's freedom.

How to contact:
http://hsgac.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fuseac...

Call 202-224-3121 and ask to speak to these Senators and to your Senators.

You can also send them email. Find them here: http://www.senate.gov

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071204/480/97cfd11863d54c42bee5374d9a27a359

AP - Mon Dec 3, 7:52 PM ET

Seashell.....

That's a great idea....If Phil would ask Edwards to disassociate himself from AIPAC there would probably be more than the two of us who would decide to support him and give him a chance to prove the rest of it.

Dave wrote "Simply very poor form, and still being ignored by our fine blog staff. The whole thing has turned me from being a regular here, along with the corrosive forces of Tom, Indy and Fred. Once we were better than this."

audrey.nc
Wed, 12/05/07
1:30 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Impossible I say.........this country loves war, plain and simple....oh a few may protest for peace and love but lets face it, this is a very violent country..the worlds largest nuclear power, the worlds largets military power and the worlds largest supplier of weapons...........the list goes on

Ive always thought the last 15 years, how can you have such a large military and not use it for anything, I mean if you have to, create an enemy......you know, like we have seen these last 8 years..

War and its glories are well documented in our history, face it the nation was founded upon violence toward the native Indian tribes.........check out on the tv per week just how many "war" movies are on...........glorified killing for whatever purpose, they cant seem to forget WW2 ended over 60 years ago.............

Last nite I sat in a movie theatre, the prior 15 minutes before the show were sponsored by.....The National Guard...........they had a very nice, 5-6 minute segment on the Guard, showing the history of the American citizen soldier, first off killing British troops to patriotic music and then some scenes from various wars includong Iraq ald all sorts of acts of heroism(they would not show atrociites, rapes, torture, killing civilians, friendly fire, etc) and also but not often rescuing vistims of disaster............

Now, I will assume this Hollywood production was heavily invested in by someone or corporation, mainly directed at the many unsuspecting youth of this country...............

 did anyone see the

Community Values: Iowa Heartland Presidential Forum Videos ?

Just  wonder what your  impressions of the event are..  

I think it's good to get positive talk out there about the importance of community.  A sense of a wider community that encompasses all people and not just a small insular group.

4.  Progressive values go beyond just a list of 10 commandments.. 

The comparisons are important.   first to take the professed conservative values (family, faith, freedom, etc)  and show what they really are. authoritarianism, secrecy, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, etc.  And to show how conservative values have failed.  

how do you think conservative values have failed?  not the policies, but the actual underlying values.
Professed values: family, faith, freedom, etc
actual values:  authoritarianism, secrecy, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, etc

http://www.newkerala.com/oct.php?action=fullnews&id=24364

Washington, Dec 5 : Jessica Biel, Ryan Reynolds, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Walsh and Taye Diggs are supporting Democratic presidential primary candidate Barack Obama

...

at the 'Los Angeles Generation Obama Concert' on Dec 11 at L.A.'s Gibson Amphitheater.

...

The event will also see musical acts by Goo Goo Dolls and R&B singer Ne-Yo.

Passes to attend the Democratic fundraiser can be obtained at Obama's official Web site.

Speaking of Progressive values............

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_david_sw_071205_kucinich_wins_pda_st.htm

Not surprisingly in a field of eight contenders, no candidate came close to gaining a majority of the total vote in PDA's recently completed presidential straw poll. But two candidates--Dennis Kucinich (41%) and John Edwards (26%)--combined for more than 2/3 of the total vote. Over 15,000 PDA activists voted in the presidential straw poll. Full results here.

Results of PDA Straw Poll:

25.

Mike -

I've seen that same National Guard ad at the movies.

What the ad portrays is that joining the Guard will allow you to help your local community.  Well, that doesn't reflect today's reality where joining the Guard can be a ticket onto the (Near) Orient Express (to Iraq or Afghanistan).  It reflect's yesterday's reality of like when I was in the Guard back in the mid 1980s.  That stay stateside Guard, unfortunately, doesn't exist anymore, thanks to our war president, out-the-door in 1/20/09 "My Pet Goat" reader, Bush. 

Huron John
Wed, 12/05/07
1:54 pm

Since PDA was founded by Kucinich staffers from 2004, that is not surprising. Edwards did well, twice the percentage of the next highest, Obama. Is there still doubt that Kucinich and Edwards represent the progressive side of the Democratic party this time around?

OMG, the Blog clock is improving.  My new post actually showed up at the bottom!!

29.

Indy Steve -

Thanks for sticking up for Obama in yesterday's threads.

Votes on PassageOct 23, 2007: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The vote was held under a suspension of the rules to cut debate short and pass the bill, needing a two-thirds majority. The totals were 404 Ayes, 6 Nays, 22 Present/Not Voting. hey we need more dems in congress not!!!!!!!!!

Clinton Campaign County Chair Pushing Obama Smear

Yesterday, Gary Hart, the Jones County Chair of the Democratic party in Iowa (and a Dodd supporter) wrote a diary on DailyKos saying he'd been forwarded the infamous email by an unnamed "Clinton county chair."

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=257119

Mike......

I know you are right. One generation rarely accepts much from the former, so maybe there's a chance if we educate the very young for the future. Kids in Saudi need to stop reading that Americans are infidels too.
Maybe the legacy of Kucinich will be to help set up a Dept of Peace to start that education process, here and around the world. We'll have to do it, or perish.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 12/05/07
1:47 pm

How dare you, Dave, to lump me in with those "scoundrels", Tom and Fred!  LOL ;-)

Where did this come from, Tom? The blog is open for spirited discussion, Dave, and I hope you join in.

* rdorgan
Wed, 12/05/07
1:51 pm

Well, I think he'll be a fine nominee. But better as a VP! Then Obama in 2016!!

Everyone has faults and some here want to focus on those exclusively. I don't mind bringing up "concerns", but doing it constantly on all of 'em is not going to get a progressive candidate.

Saying Obama is not against the war in Iraq was quite a stretch.

audrey.nc
Wed, 12/05/07
2:09 pm

I could support that, and Dennis Kucinich as the first Secretary of Peace has a nice ring to it.!

Since PDA was founded by Kucinich staffers from 2004, that is not surprising.

I didn't know that, but PDA is a lot more consistently progressive than is DFA. They're not flirting with or pimping for Corporate Democrats

I forgot to thank everyone yesterday for your support standing up for what's right and actually being able to talk about the issues (on this political blog, that is not a candidates blog)that to progres our country forward and not supporting the name calling and attacks. Our own small area of the Assault on Reason and dialogue.

These politicians are asking for money, work, support and a vote to make them the President of the United States and I promise to continue being a responsible citizen to seek truth on the issues, policy and their records so we can try to have a candidate that represents the peoples interest and hopefully to be one who will solve the many challenges we are facing. Thank you.

21.

WhatAre Progressive Values
Wed, 12/05/07
1:40 pm


Yes, I just did.

37.

...

Saying Obama is not against the war in Iraq was quite a stretch.

+++

Indeed.

Well, in case anyone missed my shameless plug for Jens Lekman yesterday, here's it again:

I just heard an artist named Jens Lekman (Swedish euro-pop stuff that sounds like Morrisey) on the local college station WERS (Emerson College).  Well, he came out with his third album this past Oct called "Night Falls Over Kortedala".  The song the station was playing is titled Your Arms Around Me.  I was hooked the instance I heard the song.  I just picked up his cd at  Newbury (street) Comics store.  Here's some samples:

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Falls-Over-Kortedala-Lekman/dp/B000V6KDL4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196773610&sr=1-1

audrey.nc
Wed, 12/05/07
2:09 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is true, and of course the US is not alone in my theory..you could probabaly lump Russia, England, France, Germany, China in there as well..maybe to a lesser extent..................

I dont favour totally disemboweling our military, as IMO I feel a certain portion of the discipline and training is good for certain people........the traditions are also engraved in our history and so be it.........

I think any young person today, regardless of party affilation only has to read up on the waste of the Vietnam and now Iraq wars..........the lies, disceit, millions of lives lost..the waste of $ too.

Theres the answer.....the youth must vow to never let this happen again(yeah right) and not vote into political office scondrels that conjure up such trajedies...........

Huron John
Wed, 12/05/07
2:19 pm

I agree...I didn't mean that as a negative. Some of the Kucinich folks are the most hard-working progressives in politics. Most of Kuc. top staff formed the PDA but it doesn't mean the rigged the vote in any way.

Kucinich is definitely in my final now. Unfortunately, sad that Edwards couldn't even find in his list of priorities for his administration in yesterdays debate to mention Global Warming.

45. That's in my final list....it's quite small now.

Huron John
Wed, 12/05/07
2:19 pm

Actually, I think PDA and DFA complement each other. One isn't "more" progressive than the other. So I amend my "agreement" to say both orgs are necessary and do different things.

Linda*in*SFNM
Wed, 12/05/07
2:30 pm

But, of course, you know that it is a huge priority for Edwards. I hope you weren't insinuating that it wasn't because that wouldn't be factual.

And he has specific, bold plans to deal with it. His trial lawyer experience will be useful in taking on the oil, gas and coal industries which will attempt to derail meaningful action.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/energy/

The League of Conservation Voters, which has not yet endorsed a candidate for president, described Edwards' plan as the "most comprehensive global warming plan of any presidential candidate to date."

"Senator Edwards' plan demonstrates that he understands the magnitude of the challenge before us and the need for bold leadership to meet it," LCV President Gene Karpinski said.

http://www.nrdconline.org/campaign/Tell_White_House_to_Protect_Polar_Bears4 

Israel and its toadies in congress are backing Bush's insane position on Iran.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1378815.php/Israel_warns_against_easing_stand_against_Iran__Roundup_

Tel Aviv - Israeli officials Wednesday warned world leaders against letting down their guard and easing their policies toward Iran's nuclear programme, after a new US intelligence report stated Tehran had halted its atomic weapons programme.

The officials also urged them to support greater sanctions against the regime of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad despite the report.

Fact is global warming has been absent from John Edwards and he did NOT list in his adminsitrations priorities at the end of the debate yesterday.  

It's up to Edwards if he will be correcting that course.  

 We're not seeing it or hearing it, and that is a fact.

Linda*in*SFNM
Wed, 12/05/07
2:40 pm

That is distorted. It is not a "fact" but yet another attack without evidence. Did you bother to google that or check out my link? I suppose you don't believe the President of the League of Conservation Voters either?

Edwards has spoken out many times, presented specific, bold plans on global warming and, most importantly, he is right about taking on the entrenched special interests in DC and a political culture which supports it IF WE WANT ANY meaningful progressive reforms.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/energy/