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US Asserts Right to Kidnap Anyone in the World
Over the weekend US legal authorities forwarded an argument in a British case that the United States can legally abduct anyone in the world.
In a case in the United Kingdom this weekend the United States officially asserted its right to legally detain and abduct citizens of any nation. From the Times Online (h/t Mefi);
AMERICA has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.
A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.
[...]
Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects.
The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.
Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.
The US government’s view emerged during a hearing involving Stanley Tollman, a former director of Chelsea football club and a friend of Baroness Thatcher, and his wife Beatrice.
If anything this case proves without a doubt that George Bush's cowboy diplomacy days are not yet over. With a highly improbable, yet still technically possible Mideast peace accord being negotiated in Annapolis, the last thing our nation needs is to thumb our collective noses at the rest of the world and continue our illegal rendition activities. To advocate such an argument now, after all the bad press Bush's idiotic foreign policy has gained us, is just another in a tragic string of blunders administrations for the next decade will struggle to undo.
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Florida may start turning toll roads and bridges over to private investors. Can you imagine how hgh the tolls might go?
19 minutes? Bit me, please. No, really, I mean it; bit me.
Mike wrote "With regard to impeachment...................."
I don't think the Declaration of Independence actually addresses the question of impeachment. If you're militating to overthrow the government, I suppose I would have an issue with that, too.
Florida may start turning toll roads and bridges over to private investors. Can you imagine how hgh the tolls might go?
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The road system is part of what I think WE consider the public trust or that which is held universally for the common good.
Selling the common good is a fascist attack on liberal politics and economy.
I guess the right-wing will do what they will
...just as Bush said he will "sprint to the end"
floridagal wrote "Florida may start turning toll roads and bridges over to private investors."
I'd dub this the Ron Paul Road and Bridge Improvement Plan.
Question - say we do impeach. And Bush is removed from office.
Then what? And how long would it take?
I'd like to hear from those in favor of impeachment cuz I'm just not getting the logic.
I get the "why" from an emotional viewpoint, but from a practical one, why would this be a good thing? Especially with the Dems having such a favorable position as we head toward the election next November?
Tom Bearse
Sun, 12/02/07
8:41 pm
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LOL Tom.........you are such a prime example of a politician.
Apologies if this has already been posted.
The DNC Strips Michigan Of Delegates: http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch...
Denise, you've asked the pertinent question, imo.
Impeach Bushie and we get Cheney-in-charge for the remainder of the Bush term.
Impeach Dick and we've got Pelosi taking over through the remainder of term....based on comments by HuJo and others here she's as bad as the current administration.
What, aside from the emotional argument, which is admittedly, compelling.....what practical gain is there?
and good evening to all, btw:)
Denise
Sun, 12/02/07
8:52 pm
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Well Denise, for what its worth, its the same thing you do with a little spoiled brat that has gotten into trouble.....you simply teach him/her not to do such a thing again..of course, I doubt a little child would do what a Nixon or Bush have done.................again, go back and read your history to what your Founding Fathers rejected..........................you and Tom seem content to asume that the Democrats will win in 2008...............Id say this one is in serious doubt at this point....................
Hey cChal good to see you!
Yes it's very emotional. After 51 yrs on the planet I still find that logic bodes much better than wishin' and hopin' for the best outcomes.
Hey I'd love to see them behind bars, but I am hoping the World takes them on in the Hague once they are free of their obligations to the United States. Right now no one will touch them.
Let's hope the World does the right thing. There will be many more voices that will rise up against them than our measly Congress could ever provide at this moment in time.
Denise said, "Yes it's very emotional. After 51 yrs on the planet I still find that logic bodes much better than wishin' and hopin' for the best outcomes."
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http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/5958
Dusty Springfield Wishin and Hopin im Deutsch 1:22:02 (Real)
LOL Paine - you devil. Now that song will be in my head all night.
Mike wrote "LOL Tom.........you are such a prime example of a politician."
But I'm not a politician. How do you reconcile these two statements?
Al Stewart Nostradamus Past Present and Future Janus 0:16:00 (Real) http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/24961
Dusty Springfield, lol! in my head now.
...and teach them how to war!
William Shatner King Henry the Fifth Transformed Man Rev-Ola 1:04:23 (Real) http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/24961
By Elizabeth Warren | bio
I don't think bankruptcy is a sexy political issue. Don't get me wrong: I think bankruptcy policy is critically important to working families. In a world with inadequate health insurance, job insecurity, predatory lenders, family break ups and plain old financial mistakes, bankruptcy can be a family's last chance to get back into the economic mainstream. But no one sees bankruptcy in their future, and those who have been through it want to forget, so there is no special interest group for the protection of bankruptcy laws.
Enter Chris Dodd. He released a major policy statement entirely about bankruptcy. He has good, strong suggestions that revolve around a single theme: Bankruptcy is a critical safety net for families that he promises to strengthen.
He's not a Johnny-Come-Lately to this issue. Over the decade of The Bankruptcy Wars (1995-2005), Senator Dodd consistently sided with the families against the banks. I recall the many, many press conferences the senator held to highlight how families--particularly families headed by women--would be hurt by the new laws. Now he's pushing the need for a safety net into the political conversation about the economic survival of the middle class.
Bankruptcy isn't a sexy issue, but I'm sure glad Senator Dodd is willing to speak up.
(worth a click to Dodd's statement)
Night, all.
Michael - you really think the GOP will get in next year? Unreal...
And I don't get your analogy of spoiled brats and Bush/Cheney. If that is what you meant. You're hard to follow sometimes.
And the founding fathers aren't here to speak at the moment but I have a feeling logic would prevail with them as well.
Denise..
You fail to see the logic? I think if one
soldier is spared from being blown to bits would be reason enough for me.
You say logic over hope, yet you say you hopw the rest of the world will solve our problem by taking our criminals to the Hague. I think that is our responsibility. The rest of the world isn't going to save us, they couldn't care less anymore.
Audrey you're emoting all over the place. I did not say logic over hope. You are putting words on my fingertips.
Do you really think impeachment will stop this war? How??
Don't even try to twist this into making me look like I don't care about our soldiers.
Cheap shot there and I'm surprised at you.
Hoping for something that won't happen is fruitless. Impeachment won't happen. It just won't. Does not mean that it should not - read my words carefully.
Just trying to understand how impeachment will end the war.
Would also like to know what you'd do with Cheney, audrey, if impeachment actually goes through - can you at least answer that part of the question?
Off until tomorrow night....heading to SC. Lovely red state; glad it's only for a week.
My! I think you doth protest too much. Nobody suggested that you don't care about the troops, that was your thought.
Impeachment would start a chain of events leading in the right direction. Brains more capable than mine are advocating this.
Mike may have a point since Howard has recently said that the election is going to be much closer than anyone thinks.
Didn't see one of your comments. The blog is not entering them in sequence.
I'm not sure I understand your question about what I would do about Cheney.
Hres 333 by Kucinich calls for the impeachment of Cheney. It is now in Comm. The plan is as it has been explained, to impeach Cheney first, where more implicating evidence than already exists will reveal itself on Bush. If Cheney could be impeached Bush would appoint someone to be VP who would have to be approved by the Senate. Then Bush could be impeached. It's what really needs to happen. How does history explain how we did nothing if we don't impeach?
1:31
28 degrees
Tanner update:
http://eatapyzch.blogspot.com/
Good morning, BFA!
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mainefem: thanks for the heads up on a potential delay for Monica. Hope that the storm doesn't knock everything out.
mprov & Susan: how nice to see your videos posted!
Reed in VT: SO sorry to hear about your wife's father's pancreatic cancer. I lost a former boss and very good friend to that horrible disease nearly two years ago. Your wife has all my sympathy and love.
lindab: you are the Energizer Bunny of VA politics. Thanks so much for all that you do. We watched Webb on MTP yesterday. How nice to see VA turning blue before our eyes because of the work of people like you!
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The thread topic: the complete arrogance of putzCo and its ignorance ... or deliberate ... of international laws, conventions and treaties, as well as our own bilateral treaties dealing with extradition, have fulfilled the world's worst fears of a so-called superpower. Thanks so much, putzCo. [Sarcasm, just in case anyone takes me seriously.]
How do we expect any other country to be law-abiding when putzCo break even those we make?
IMO, in the light of overwhelming evidence that putzCo have committed high crimes and misdemeanors, it is the responsibility of Congress to begin impeachment proceedings, whether Dems are complicit or not. And no, I do not for a moment believe that Pelosi in charge would be anything even halfway as bad as the current corrupt band of brothers in crime. This is not something that we should punt to the world, although the world itself may still have some forums to judge these scumbags for crimes that we have not tried them for. Can you imagine how we would have reacted if the German people had said rather than fight the Nazi Reich, they would just wait for the world to sort it out? Oh wait, isn't that what happened ... and in the meantime, millions died and civil liberties went right out the window.
I am not so sure that next year's election will be the panacea that many appear to believe that it will.
In the meantime, I will NOT be a *good little German.* I am truly ashamed and disheartened when I hear such talk.
er ... after *deliberate* above, please add *failure to heed* ... sorry about that.
The Rethugs continue to try to *out-Gawd* each other. Attempting to draw parallels between these and JFK makes me literally want to upchuck.
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Romney to deliver key address on faith
· Republican hopes to recapture frontrunner status
· Huckabee produces strong poll showing in Iowa
Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Monday December 3, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
Mitt Romney last night moved to dampen suspicion among Republican voters about his Mormon beliefs and recapture his frontrunner status for the party's nomination by announcing he will deliver an address on faith and American society.
The announcement, made only hours after a new poll showed the Baptist minister, Mike Huckabee, leaping past Romney to first place in Iowa, which holds its caucuses on January 3, was seen as an attempt to draw parallels with the late John F Kennedy.
In the 1960 elections, Kennedy, America's first and only Catholic president, made a now legendary address about the separation of church and state to assure voters that his faith would have no influence over decisions made in the White House. Mr Romney's speech, scheduled for Thursday, was designed for maximum effect. Romney will appear at the presidential library of the first George Bush in College Station, Texas and will be introduced by the former president.
The campaign said last night that Bush technically will not be endorsing Romney but the show of support was unmistakable.
[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33143...
How nice to hear good news about Tanner and that he is acting very much like any excited little boy, puddle! ♥
I got to *talk* to my grandbaby last evening, although there was a lot there that apparently made more sense to her than to me. LOL
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Wonder how this will be featured in the Creation Museum.
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Faster than T rex - the dinosaur 'mummy' that had to run for its life
· Skin and tissue preserved in rare fossil discovery
· Size of herbivore's rump 'shows it could do 28mph'
James Randerson, science correspondent
The Guardian
Monday December 3 2007
If you were unfortunate enough to share the planet with Tyrannosaurus rex there were two ways not to be eaten - either outrun the predator or hide from it. An exquisitely preserved fossil of one of T rex's plant-eating contemporaries shows that it did both.
Dakota, as the find has been nicknamed, was 10 miles an hour faster than its enemy and had a stripey pattern on its skin, possibly to break up its outline and make it less visible. The scientists who have analysed the specimen say its body was subjected to a natural but extremely unusual mummification process after it died, preserving not just bones but skin and soft tissues.
"When you get up close and look at the skin envelope it's beautiful. This is not a skin impression, it's fossilized skin. That's very, very different," said Dr Phil Manning, the palaeontologist at Manchester University who has led the investigation.
The exquisite detail allows researchers to find out how the animal moved - and preliminary investigations have suggested that the way museums put dinosaur fossils together for display is incorrect.
The "dinosaur mummy" is a 3,600 kilogram hadrosaur, or duck-billed dinosaur, that died 65 to 67m years ago - shortly before all the other dinosaurs went extinct, probably because of a massive meteorite impact.
[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/d...
Oh great, now we throw Hitler into our discussion of impeachment?
Please Judy you're much smarter than that!
Sorry my logic hit so many emotional buttons.
What Congress do we currently have that will give us 2/3rds?
As Audrey said, many minds much more intelligent than hers (and mine) want impeachment. And everytime they try to do something, including Dennis, it just gets shelved.
For the past two years we've been trying to do it the right way - but it's not happening.
Why is that?
Supreme idiocy, IMHO. But it's part of the use-and-toss mentality that putzCo have towards all those who are serving our country on the front lines. putzCo, of course, keep themselves well away from any danger whatsoever.
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Arab-American paratrooper faces deportation after Afghan service
· Highly decorated sergeant ordered to stand trial
· Anti-discrimination committee protests
Ed Pilkington in New York
Monday December 3, 2007
Guardian
A highly decorated Arab-American sergeant in the US army, who is currently serving as a paratrooper in Afghanistan, faces deportation on his return to the United States because of an irregularity in his immigration papers.
Sgt Hicham Benkabbou has been served with an order to stand trial for deportation as soon as he arrives home, despite the fact that he has been on active service in Afghanistan for almost two years with the 508th parachute infantry regiment, known as the Red Devils.
His lawyers say his treatment illustrates the harsh justice meted out to Arab-Americans by the US immigration authorities.
Benkabbou came to the US from his native Morocco in 1987, and was granted permanent residency four years ago. But when he applied to become a naturalised US citizen in 2005 - by which time he was already serving in the army - immigration officials discovered that he had failed to register his first marriage and alleged that the ceremony had been arranged fraudulently to get him into the country.
Benkabbou says that the marriage was annulled and argues it is therefore irrelevant to his immigration status. "I do not think I deserve to get deported after serving honourably during a time of war!" he wrote in an email from Afghanistan.
[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33142...
Denise: this administration is the Worst. Ever. and I will not apologize for that comparison. I actually am in a pretty good poisition to know exactly how apt it is.
The point is that if we stand for the rule of law, then we must begin the impeachment process. Saying that we can't get 2/3 is a cop-out. We cannot get anything else done so long as they are in office.
And every day, I have to answer the questions: WHY aren't Americans impeaching these men? WHY aren't Americans in the streets?
You guys are in your ivory towers, because that is just the tip of the iceberg over here.
Please tell us how apt it is, Judy.
Hey I'm all for impeachment - just don't know how it's going to happen before they leave office.
Do you?
er ... that should be *position* speaking of which, it's getting on for departure time.
But first, here's DU's wonderful EarlG, who is back this week with the Top Ten.
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The Top 10 Conservative Idiots, No. 316
December 3, 2007
America's Playa Edition
This week Rudy Giuliani (1) realizes that he probably should never have run for president in the first place, Mike Hucakbee (2,3) enjoys God's support, Dennis Hastert and Trent Lott (9) call it quits, and the Republican Presidential Candidates (10) have a great debate. Don't forget the key!
[...]
http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis...
Impeachment starts with taking it off the table.
I have spent the past six years steeped in issues relating to Holocaust survivors. And still am.
Now gone.
I have a feeling that my posts are being misinterpreted.
I get the "why", just not the "how."
And no one seems to be able to answer that simple question.
Cya Judy.....musta hit a nerve. Would have loved to know about how Nazi Germany relates to present day America.
Guess I'll have to wait or read up on it on my own. I wasn't aware of a holocaust in the United States - other than no healthcare for 48 million. I don't think impeachment will solve that, though.
A new administration will have its work cut out for it.
I understand the frustration. But please don't take it out on me. I just presented my logical thoughts.
My emotional thoughts are much different.
Denise....
The how is getting hr333 back on the table. A couple of Congressmen said our response was not great enough. Dennis can bring it back up again as can any other critter. Then we need o demand that they do it with overwhelming e-mails calls etc. They won't do it if they have to stick their necks out. Hope that answers. gone zzzzzzzs
Denise...
The blog is jumping around.......see 41
Yes crazy blog - I appreciate your responses, audrey.
I guess I'm frustrated, too so I try to take a different path.
I emailed, I called - but saying that we didn't do enough is, to me, a cop out by whoever those "couple of Congressmen" are. It's their job to do the right thing. They need more of US yelling and screaming?
And you wonder why I see things differently?
Congress isn't up to this task. People have gone to Pelosi's house - many of them from my DFA group. They go there quite often. Doesn't do a damn bit of good.
We have 11 months to not only get a vote to impeach, but to carry it out to completion. I get the symbolism of trying to do something so history says that we tried. It's already documented that some in Congress are currently trying, and have for the past three years.
I'd love to see millions in the street. I'd be there with them.
Why isn't it happening? Too complex to answer.
I hate seeing these CRIMINALS get away with this as much as you and everyone else.
Testy subject, obviously. Take care
Putting impeachment on the table and actually starting something would be a necessary warning shot across the bow of the next prez, who just may be a repug. To do nothing shows the world that there is no longer any rule of law here.
The Germans didn't stop Hitler. That's your very good comparison.
To keep impeachment off the table is totally disregarding Constitutional Law. Ask the scholars on Keith and Moyers.
Emotional, yes. But it's also logical to defend the Constitution against fascism and tyranny. No, it wouldn't pass in the Senate - or maybe it would if more were brought to light.
The thing is to START SOMETHING NOW.
My 2 cents. Goodnight.
Cant' resist this.
MEET THE NEW AMERICAN REVOLUTIONARIES! By Linda Milazzo (7 comments)
On January 1st at the Pasadena Rose Parade, Revolutionary garbed patriots will spread the message to impeach and end the war!Let's hope it's cheney that they advocate impeaching.
The Busting Down of America By JOHN LORENZ (8 comments) A diatribe to articulate the "general malaise" and anger felt by many Americans regarding the government targeting US as the enemy.
Bill Douglas: You Say 9/11 Was an Inside Job? There's Nothing I Can Do About It . . . or Is There? (4 comments) FEELING HOPELESS? FRIENDS AND FAMILY FEELING HOPELESS? SHARE THIS SHORT ESSAY WITH THEM. You Say 9/11 Was an Inside Job? There's Nothing I Can Do About It . . . or Is There?
So now what? Is our oil supply cut off?
Venezuela Hands Narrow Defeat to Chávez Plan Voters narrowly defeated a proposed overhaul to the constitution in a contentious referendum over granting President Hugo Chávez sweeping new powers, the Election Commission announced Monday.The defeat slows Chávez’s socialist-inspired transformation of the country. Venezuela, once a staunch ally of the United States, has become a leading opponent of the Bush administration’s policies in the developing world.
I imagine we'll be hearing from Chavez.
James Petras: CIA Venezuela Destabilization Memo Surfaces Apart from the deep involvement of the US, the primary organization of the Venezuelan business elite, as well as all major private TV, radio and newspaper outlets have been engaged in a campaign of fear and intimidation. Food producers, wholesale and retail distributors have created artificial shortages of basic food items and have provoked large scale capital flight to sow chaos in the hopes of reaping a 'no' vote.
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Isn't it interesting that the US seems to *win* elections and *influence* other countries by just a few close votes. Putzco loves close elections and ours in 08 will be just that, wth Clinton losing if she's the nominee. JMO
The dems are much to scared and cocky - a very losing combo.
He should be impeached just for his signing statements. Look at this one.
David Swanson: The Two Biggest Public Secrets, and How Bush Just Signing Statemented Iraq As noted by the uniquely vigilant Charlie Savage in the Boston Globe, President Bush in November issued a signing statement unconstitutionally overturning 10 sections of H.R. 3222, the "Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2008." Among the little technical details Bush just erased was the requirement that he not take funds appropriated to the Pentagon for one thing and use them for something else.
Good morning, everybody
Today I am going to write. Did you all see the videos from Des Moines?
FYI, so far we've had about 2 inches of snow. The snow plow came by at 2:30. It was quite loud, so I assume there wasn't much snow to get out of the way. Not enough to mute the sound of the scraper on the asphalt. Typically, the NH sea coast doesn't get as much snow as either the mountains or Massachusetts. We're above the snow belt that extends from the great lakes to Boston. The only time we get lots of snow is when the storm goes out to sea and then gets shunted back over Maine and turns into a nor'easter. It's the same kind of pattern that can happen over north Florida and send hurricanes back over Georgia once they've picked up more water from the Gulf stream.
54. Yes.
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By Michael Ellis on Dec 2, 2007 8:13 PM ESTTom,
With regard to impeachment....................
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."