Screw Ron Paul.  Dean is first.

It's good to have parties.  I keep reminding myself to schedule one.  LOL

From the previous thread

62.

puddle
Tue, 11/27/07
5:57 pm

I miss her too. She didn't even get to say goodbye.

poke Ron Paul and you get Daniel p*ssed, lol

that last thread was a great philibuster, I need to take notes

send me a lifeline puddle

THE MYTH OF THE "AMERICAN DREAM"

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elaine_b_071127_the_myth_of_the__22ame.htm

“American Dream,” isn’t that what all these “illegal immigrants” come here for?  Right-wing, and even so called liberal pundits are always talking about it.  Not true.  Those emigrating to these shores either legally or illegally, are doing it for a reason, and it is not a dream.  They are starving in their own Country because of us.   

America the beautiful, the corporate power, the militaristic power, has surely over the last century, created a vast imperialism that no one can mess with.  It is subversive, militant, corrupt and aggressive.  America has combined its corporate mega companies with the politicians and its military might.  Wow, what a dream.  We steal diamonds from Africa, and subjugate and impoverish the people who mine those diamonds, while controlling the government in charge with the weapons and money it desires.  We steal oil, uranium, gold, and thousands of other natural resources from South America, the Middle East, and again Africa and leave those people living in squalor and starvation, with rampant diseases left unchecked. 

In turn, Americans buy everything. They are the mass consumers of the globe.  Doesn’t matter where it came from, or who it really belongs to, or how it got onto the shelves of Wal-Mart or The Gap, just that they want it, at any cost.   Americans want the biggest cars and the biggest houses, and the most “stuff,” but the price for others is destruction.  So those that cannot survive in the countries we have plundered, try to make their way here, to eke out enough money to send home so their families can eat and have a tin roof over their heads, until either the corporations decide to steal their land again, or kick the immigrants out of America.   Wow, what a dream. 

THE END OF AN EMPIRE?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112707H.shtml

 Dying empires cling until the very end to the outward trappings of power. They mask their weakness behind a costly and technologically advanced military. They pursue increasingly unrealistic imperial ambitions. They stifle dissent with efficient and often ruthless mechanisms of control. They lose the capacity for empathy, which allows them to see themselves through the eyes of others, to create a world of accommodation rather than strife. The creeds and noble ideals of the nation become empty cliches, used to justify acts of greater plunder, corruption and violence. By the end, there is only a raw lust for power and few willing to confront it.

    The most damning indicators of national decline are upon us. We have watched an oligarchy rise to take economic and political power. The top 1 percent of the population has amassed more wealth than the bottom 90 percent combined, creating economic disparities unseen since the Depression. If Hillary Rodham Clinton becomes president, we will see the presidency controlled by two families for the last 24 years.

    Massive debt, much of it in the hands of the Chinese, keeps piling up as we fund absurd imperial projects and useless foreign wars. Democratic freedoms are diminished in the name of national security. And the erosion of basic services, from education to health care to public housing, has left tens of millions of citizens in despair. The displacement of genuine debate and civil and political discourse with the noise and glitter of public spectacle and entertainment has left us ignorant of the outside world, and blind to how it perceives us. We are fed trivia and celebrity gossip in place of news.

The American working class, once the most prosperous on Earth, has been politically disempowered, impoverished and abandoned. Manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas. State and federal assistance programs have been slashed. The corporations, those that orchestrated the flight of jobs and the abolishment of workers' rights, control every federal agency in Washington, including the Department of Labor. They have dismantled the regulations that had made the country's managed capitalism a success for ordinary men and women. The Democratic and Republican Parties now take corporate money and do the bidding of corporate interests.

John thank you for your contributions (even if it probably will get you called names again).

this blog is the closest thing to a free speech zone since Berkely and Columbia lead the way

could you give me your take on what a "just" society would look like? (liberty and justice for all)

(even if it probably will get you called names again).

Just a guess -- the one who does that finally crossed the line and won't be doing it any more on this blog. 

The Democratic and Republican Parties now take corporate money and do the bidding of corporate interests.

The one ray of hope is that there are some Democrats who realize the problem exists and want to fix it it. And most of those who don't realize it would want to fix it if they did. Of course, in the GOP no one realizes it's a problem wouldn't want to fix it if they did.

Saw a snippet of an interview of John Edwards conducted by Brian Williams. The subject was Clinton's so-called inevitability as the Dem. nominee. In the interview Edwards incorrectly asserts that Governor Dean didn't win a single caucus/primary. He did in fact win Vermont - not a huge win but a win nonetheless. Just another reason I don't like Edwards...

Ron Paul has some very serious issues about the role of government, and about racial issues.  I am sorry but he does.  He would do away with Social Security, do away with women's choice about medical decisions....and some of his writings from the 1990s are pretty weird.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1649

Here are some of the statements from the comments section, with links.  

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3711130&mesg_id=3712054

If anyone is looking for an honest primary poll, look right here on December 5th when I will post the results which will then be in from the Progressive Democrats of America.

Theit poll began today, but you had to be a member by the end of Oct. 2007 to get the email with the voting link. The email is not forwardable. Maybe others here may have also gotten one.

PDA has over 100,000 members nationwide and this will be a nationwide poll of all its members. It should give more credible results than the ones that are floating around now that have virtually no credibility since we don't know the the criteria that was used to get the results.

~~~

BTW Monica, is that going to be a cyber party? Hope so, we can use one around here. I'll have the chips and dip ready -- uhm, if I'm invited that is.

bbl

Off to watch Keith Dobermann

10.

PS - Mary, yes I noted the same thing. Some, (one in particular) worked very hard in Vermont to get that favorite son vote for Howard and he did it!

The night Howard won Vermont was a fun night here. What Dean also won was the loyalty of a great bunch of folks.

listening to the end of the Biden interview on Newshour and you could tell Joe has heard the kind of complaints John posts about Democratic timidity

the great thing for candidates about Iowa is you face real voters eyeball to eyeball

it shouldn't decide the nominee disproportionately but it is a good process

possibly Mr Pitt's best piece to date...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112607...


America the tree is falling at an accelerated pace...and we wont
even hear the proverbial 'thud'....

i wonder ... will it sound like a cash register at walmart....

In the interview Edwards incorrectly asserts that Governor Dean didn't win a single caucus/primary. He did in fact win Vermont - not a huge win but a win nonetheless. Just another reason I don't like Edwards...

That's laughable from a guy who didn't win a single primary/caucus. No wait, he won his own home state like Dean.

What a creep. 

and the Pitt article doesn't even address global warming beyond the beyond

the great thing for candidates about Iowa is you face real voters eyeball to eyeball

NH also has that distinction. But then, any states would if given the exclusive right to be first and have politicians swarming all over them. 

John Edwards is what gives Vermont a chance to pick the next President when he stops the inevitability of Hillary and opens the process to later states by beating her in Iowa.

..like Mark Penn, the chief political strategist for Democrat Hillary Clinton, denigrate our latest Zogby Interactive survey simply because it showed his client in a bad light…  All is fair in love and war, the centuries–old proverb states. Politics is not included ..

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1394 

IN-TER-AC-TIVE -- You mean, you didn’t CALL people –

STANDING by their ‘iteractive poll’, as is Fox, Drudge and even – CNN, but on anothr page you'll find....

…This separate polling methodology, under research and development at Zogby since 1998, showed particular value in mapping close contests.  There is still work to be done in perfecting the interactive polling model – for instance, the interactive survey had Minnesota Democrat Amy Klobuchar leading in the Senate race there by 8%, while she coasted to an easy 20% victory. And in New York, incumbent Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton led by 24% in the poll but actually won with a 36% edge. Some of that can be attributed to the fact that, for a variety of reasons Again, in the governor’s races, there were misses by the interactive model. In Arkansas, the last poll before Election Day has Republican Asa Hutchinson up by 3%, but he lost to Democrat Mike Beebe by 14%. And in Colorado, where gubernatorial candidates Bob Beauprez, the Republican, and Democrat Bill Ritter were tied in the last interactive survey. When votes were counted, Ritter won by 15%.   http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1064

Shame on you Zogby.

any states would if given the exclusive right to be first and have politicians swarming all over them

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

probably true which is why a national primary is such a bad idea

Our Progressive Coalition by Brad Parker, Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles Vice President: http://pdamerica.org/articles/chapters/c...

PDA Members' Presidential Preference Straw Poll: https://www.pdamerica.org/polls/poll-pre...

John Edwards is what gives Vermont a chance to pick the next President when he stops the inevitability of Hillary and opens the process to later states by beating her in Iowa.

Actually...

Barack Obama is what gives Vermont a chance to pick the next President when he stops the inevitability of Hillary and opens the process to later states by beating her in Iowa.

AN INCONVENIENT VISIT

Gore makes it to the oval office, if only for a chat

The occasion was an annual tradition, the presidential photo opportunity with Nobel Prize winners. But former Vice President Gore, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on the environment, was granted special treatment: a private tête-à-tête with the president, which lasted more than 30 minutes, provoking intense speculation about just what the two talked about. "Of course, we talked about global warming — the whole time," Mr. Gore said afterward, as he and his wife, Tipper, emerged onto Pennsylvania Avenue, where they were mobbed by reporters and photographers. ,,,full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/washin...

BUSH ALLY DEFEATED

Australia's Rudd discusses climate change with Al Gore, underscoring policy shift

Incoming Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said Tuesday he had a friendly chat with former U.S. Vice President Al Gore about global warming, underscoring Australia's new focus on protecting the environment since elections last weekend. Rudd, whose Labor Party on Saturday swept conservative Prime Minister John Howard's government from power after 11 years, has made ratifying the Kyoto pact on limiting greenhouse gas emissions one of the first tasks of his rule — one of two major campaign promises that will likely rile close ally the United States. ...full article: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/2...

DEMS WORST FEAR

General election match-ups show the New York Senator (Clinton) would lose against every top Republican
A new Zogby Interactive survey shows Democrat Hillary Clinton of New York would lose to every one of the top five Republican presidential contenders, representing a reversal of fortune for the national Democratic front–runner who had led against all prospective GOP opponents earlier this year. Meanwhile, fellow Democrats Barack Obama of Illinois and John Edwards of North Carolina would defeat or tie every one of the Republicans, this latest survey shows. ...full article: http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?I...

Power Postures 

You know from this picture who has the power?

Superdelegates for Clinton (Undecided’s No. 1)
Published: November 8, 2007

In an early indication of where Democratic Party leaders are leaning, a survey of the party’s superdelegates — elected officials and other leaders who vote at the party’s convention but are not selected in primaries — found they are favoring Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

While more than a third of the party’s 850 superdelegates said they were undecided, more of those who have decided support Mrs. Clinton more than any other candidate. Senator Barack Obama of Illinois is next to garner support.

...A survey conducted by The Times and CBS News in January 2004, before the Iowa caucuses, found a similar number of undecided superdelegates and, among those who were declaring support for a candidate, Howard Dean held a substantial lead over John Kerry.

full article and polling stats: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/us/pol...

Ron Paul is no John Anderson

Bill Clinton trying to rewrite history about his support for the Iraq War. Unbelievable.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Bill_Clint...

This should not be constued as an endorsement on my part:

Imagine yourself pretending to wiegh two things oppositely in your hands...

which would weigh more heavily on the scale?

 Opra Winfrey or ? 

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/35.aspx

Poet and author Maya Angelou speaks out about her pride in and support of Hillary's run for the White House.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/37.aspx

Hillary sits down with Warren Buffett to talk about America's economic priorities and why America's most successful investor is a Democrat.

sunlight
Tue, 11/27/07
9:25 pm Power Postures 

Gee, I had no intention of posting that. I hit "Backspace" and voila it posted.
Well, some say that they don't care about the blog clock.

It starts more and more sounding like it doesn't matter if we drive on the left or right side of the road.

Ron Paul is not ........whoever.

\

A new Zogby Interactive survey

See:

Sam Ross
Tue, 11/27/07
8:15 pm

Place no trust in surveys. 

which would weigh more heavily on the scale?  

It depends on whether your into poetry or presents.....

Money CAN buy you love. 

ABC News reports that Bill, like his wife, supported giving President Bush the authority needed to launch an attack in 2002.

>

That's another repeated half truth. 

Bush did not meet the criteria upon which the Congress legislated authority.

Bush failed the smell test with the UN as well.

Bush deserves the bile, not Bill.

I believe that any candidate or their spouses who went along with Bush's bogus war deserve the bile and that includes the Clintons.

Let her.  Let both support in the primary whomever they will.  Bill Clinton's US Attorney-Civil Rights (Gov Deval Patrick-Massachusetts) is for Obama in the Primary.  What will happen come the General?  Vote for Ron Paul (that dried up prune)?

Hey mary vb...

Bush can bite me.  I will vote for anyone of the Dems, and I don't give a hoot how they voted for that resolution or how the media spins the whole tornado back into the lap of the Dems.

Zogby schmogby.

You know from this picture who has the power?

Any fool can strut......

Ron Paul is the figure Dean should have been.

Ron Paul will not support his Party Nominee, they are too war like,

Dean will support the warlike Democrat.

The Hope for America is Ron Paul, Join the Ron Paul Revolution! 

I will vote for anyone of the Dems, and I don't give a hoot how they voted for that resolution

That's what made Hillary think she could get away with voting for the next war too. 

vb, do you remember Sitka's alter ego?  I thought it was NCDean, but he said it wasn't.  I remember that you were the one who solved the mystery.

That's another repeated half truth.

Rather, it's a half lie that Hillary (and the rest) voted to give Bush  authorization to invade Iraq in the expectation that it would lead to diplomacy over war. They knew what was going down.

Tom Bearse

You're my alter ego. 

Wardell wrote "Ron Paul will not support his Party Nominee . . ."

Because that would be a Republican.  What a moron.  He's afraid whoever it is might agree to pay to have a bridge rebuilt or something.

Money CAN buy you love. 

I suppose it's tax deductible?  Fat cat exploiter.  Oprah could care less about giving members of her audience a car.  It just another marketing gimmick with goal...(drum roll) rewards accrued to her.  But she does have nice hair.

Sitka wrote "You're my alter ego."

Be that as it may, you went by more than one name on the blog, none of which I'm recalling at the moment.  It was a really chameleonic performance. 

They knew what was going down.

>

Did they, now?  Or is that self serving speculation?

That's what made Hillary think she could get away with voting for the next war too. 

>

Is it all about the war?  OMG

45.

>which one has got the biggest balls:  Bush or Moussaweenie?

Wardell Lindsay

>

I'm convinced!  not

Paine - This Iraq debacle is the biggest disaster of our times. I sure care how the candidates voted. I like Dodd but he voted for it. At least he's said he was wrong. Not so with Clinton. It does matter - at least to me.

Sitka wrote "They knew what was going down."

The entire fiasco was a mass abdication of Constitutional responsiblity by members of Congress.  Only Congress can declare war.  If the Commander in Chief has the Constitutional power to direct military operations, there was no need to consult Congress.  If, however, only Congress has the power, then members knew that an authorization vote was a de facto declaration of war.  You can't authorize the executive to do something he already had authority to do.  Assuming he didn't, saying it was alright to go ahead ceded that power.  It was a fig leaf, and certain legislators were only too willing to paste it on.

I don't remember but I liked the alter ego of Sitka as much as I like Sitka - and that's a lot. Sitka tells it like it is and some just don't want to hear it.

Timestamp

OK, so it ain'a the clock that's the problem for some folks, but the random placement of congruent comments with in the boarders of BFA is ...(x,y,z).

My comment about Sitka was directed to Tom but the blog is a tad messed up again.

vb wrote "I don't remember but I liked the alter ego of Sitka as much as I like Sitka - and that's a lot."

Yeah, he's a prince.

Timestamp 10:37

"Yeah, he's a prince."

A sweetheart, a real peach.