May 19, 2003- (Associated Press): “Former President Bill Clinton accused President Bush of spending more time fighting the war on terrorism than on domestic issues during a commencement speech at Tougaloo College. ‘I supported the president when he asked for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but we can’t be forever strong abroad if we don’t keep getting better at home,” Clinton said Sunday to a crowd of about 8,000. […] The Bush administration, Clinton said, ‘is still focused on defeating terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, and that’s good, but not good enough. The power of our example is just as important as our military might.’”

April 14, 2003 (Minneapolis Star Tribune): “In his first speech in Minnesota since leaving office, former President Bill Clinton on Sunday praised President Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq. But he criticized Bush’s domestic priorities and urged the administration to offer North Korea aid and a pledge of nonaggression in exchange for an end to that country’s missile and nuclear weapons programs.” [Minneapolis Star Tribune, 4/14/03]

Oh, yea first-- Dean, you remember him, is first.  Those who have taken over this blog and turned it into an intollerant rant fest are last. ....Something he would never support, by the way.

yeah, Bill has plenty of flawed reasoning, imo.  but...

it's snowing in Burlington - yippeee!  soooo pretty...

http://www.hazecam.net/burlington.html

(I'm of a mind that if it's cold, it may as well snow.)

Well, this line from Bill Clinton probably won't do a lot to help Hillary on the Iraq issue. Speaking to an Iowa crowd today, the former president criticized the Bush Administration for continuing to cut taxes even as they pursued wars — and went on to say that he opposed the Iraq War from the start.

"Even though I approved of Afghanistan and opposed Iraq — from the beginning — I still resent that I was not asked or given the opportunity to support those Soldiers," Bill told the crowd.

But we can trust Hill but not Bill??  Enough with the Bush and Clinton clans, let move on for goodness sakes.

Oh, yea first-- Dean, you remember him, is first.  Those who have taken over this blog and turned it into an intollerant rant fest are last. ....

I was going to say Dean is first and Fox is last -- but you beat me to it. 

I'm pretty sure Howard Dean would support our free speech here.  and yes, indeedy, he IS first.

I'm off to dream about snow and Grandkids - good dreams to all.

Happy Birthday, Subway. Message from Thankful on end of last thread. Loves ya, Sweetie.

Too bad the trolls don't stick around long enough to have a klew as to what this blog's up to, lol!  They jes' makes themselves look even dumber than they ARE. . . .

Bill Clinton: I Opposed Iraq War From The Beginning

That's not much different from what's often said by apologists who claim that those who voted in favor of it did so in order to seek a diplomatic resolution.

Manufactured Populism  nobody read this shit anymore so why do you post it  just to keep the sheep in line!!!!! na.

Please recommend this post. Thank you.
http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/23117...

Now that Alex Jones, Jerome Corsi, and others have exposed the plot to establish a "North American community," that is to say eradicate the national sovereignty of the United States, Canada, and Mexico in favor of a "United Nations of America" based on the European Union, the corporate media and globalist apologists have kicked into over-drive with a propaganda effort to deny reality.

"Nobody is proposing a North American Union," declared Robert Pastor, correctly identified as the father of the NAU and author of "Towards a North American Community: Lessons from the Old World for the New," a book published by the Council on Foreign Relations Press in association with the Canadian Council of Chief Executives and the Consejo Mexicano de Asuntos Internacionales. Pastor may insist the elite of the three countries, at the behest of transnational corporations, are not interested in a merged superstate, but his argument betrays the fact the former national security advisor dreams of an American version of the European Union.

Pastor is an advocate of NAFTA on steroids, or "NAFTA Plus." According to Miguel Pickard , in "the early 1990s, when NAFTA negotiators were still wrangling over arcane language, Pastor was proposing ways to �improve' the treaty. According to Pastor, NAFTA was off to a bad start, since negotiators were mostly seeking to dismantle trade tariffs. For Pastor it was crucial to find ways of integrating the three countries, similarly (but with important differences) to what the Europeans had done since the 50s. Years later, Pastor would bemoan that NAFTA's promise had gone unfulfilled, since it lacked a �grand vision' for the three countries, i.e., a much richer perspective than the emphasis put on trade." In other words, NAFTA was simply a trade treaty minus the "grand vision" of global integration.

But there is a problem with Pastor's "grand vision," namely the people of the United States, Canada, and Mexico are reluctant to give up their national sovereignty.

Pastor, in a conversation with Jerome R. Corsi , "was careful to distinguish that his proposals were designed to create a North American Community and that he never has proposed to create a North American Union as an EU-style regional government," thus Pastor's insistence "nobody is "proposing a North American Union."

But this is, to say the least, deceptive. "The idea seems to be to put new structures in place that change the look of the landscape," writes Corsi. "[WorldNetDaily] pointed out to Pastor that this step-by-step approach is the same approach taken to create the European Union. The memoirs of Jean Monnet, regarded as the architect of European unity, finally disclosed he had used a strategy of deceit, knowing his plan to form a European Union would never succeed if it were openly disclosed."

"Pastor in an article entitled �NAFTA is Not Enough,' argued for an incremental process that could head toward the creation of the NAU, all the while providing cover for participating politicians and governments to deny that creating the NAU was their goal," Corsi argues in a News with Views editorial. In the article, Pastor provides key details on how this stealth process works:

While the three governments of North America are unlikely to step into the debate on long-term goals at the current time, nongovernmental organizations, research institutes, and universities should fill the void with new ideas and old-fashioned cross-border dialogue.

Short of this sort of shadowy incrementalism, the NAU project may be dropped on the fast track by other means, according to Corsi. "Dr. Pastor seems to prescribe that a fear formula is all that is needed for the American people need to begin begging SPP to produce the NAU right now. Pastor openly writes as if the next 9/11 terrorist attack or a future outbreak of some health epidemic such as the avian flu could be just what the NAU doctor ordered as the prescription for the American people to abandon sovereignty in favor of super-regional government control, all in the interest of 'security' leading to �prosperity.' Or, is it �prosperity' which necessitates more 'security' via surrender to Big Brother government?"

In predictable fashion, the corporate media is tasked with characterizing those who document the emerging NAU as tinfoil hatters, nut cases, mental patients, conspiracy theorists, etc.

For instance, neocon Charles Krauthammer told Fox News: "I love this stuff because if you ever doubt your own sanity, all you have to do is read this stuff and realize that you're okay" (see video), while "conservative" Michael Medved lamented what he calls the "paranoid and groundless frenzy� fomented and promoted by a shameless collection of lunatics and losers; crooks, cranks, demagogues and opportunists, who claim the existence of a top secret master plan to join the U.S., Canada and Mexico in one big super-state," never mind the above, well-documented. "I'm sorry to sound cynical and intolerant about this stupidity, but I'm furious, actually � ashamed to be part of a proud medium (conservative talk radio) that increasingly encourages this paralyzing, puerile paranoia," apparently a reference to Alex Jones and others who continue to flesh out the "incremental" conspiracy Medved refuses to acknowledge.

Drake Bennett writes for the Boston Globe:

Government officials say a continental union is out of the question, and economists and political analysts overwhelmingly agree that there will not be a North American Union in our lifetimes. But belief in the NAU � that the plans are very real, and that the nation is poised to lose its independence � has been spreading from its origins in the conservative fringe, coloring political press conferences and candidate question-and-answer sessions, and reaching a kind of critical mass on the campaign trail. Republican presidential candidate and Texas congressman Ron Paul has made the North American Union one of his central issues.

Government officials of the sort, no doubt, that told us Saddam Hussein was about use weapons of mass destruction against the United States or that the air at Ground Zero in New York was safe to breathe.

Finally, it is no mistake the Boston Globe has rolled Ron Paul into its diatribe of transparent denial, as Paul must be roundly discredited and characterized as a kook, primarily because a Paul presidency would most certainly put an end to Robert Pastor's dream of an American version of the European Union once and for all.

Too bad the trolls don't stick around long enough to have a klew as to what this blog's up to, lol!  They jes' makes themselves look even dumber than they ARE. . . .  

I have been here since two months before Iowa.  I heard about this BLOG thing and had never heard of it and came on a joined and have been checking in often for the last 4+ years.  I remember when you lost someone and I grieved along with the group.  I blieve we can disagree on policy and still share a common humanity, many on here can not seem to recognize that.  they are like pit bulls waiting for someone to step out of line.  I have seen many come and go in that time and you all have weeded it down to the most virulent strain.  Those who followed Dean because he was different, spoke from a different perspective are lost to the self imposed PC of this blog.  But whatever, I read what you post, you read what I post, and we all go on with our lives.  I guess that makes me a troll, huh.

in fact I remeber Sitka come, was run off and left, and then he returned only recently.  He used to be called a troll.  Then there was Robert, who some suggested might have been Sitka under a different name.  Sitka apparently has gone from Troll to Troll spotter.  Having fun in your new position of glory??

I blieve we can disagree on policy and still share a common humanity

How nice! 

Those who have taken over this blog and turned it into an intollerant rant fest are last. ....

How rotten! 

Rotten only for those who are not intollerant,  that makes life good for you.

Too bad the trolls don't stick around long enough to have a klew as to what this blog's up to, lol!  They jes' makes themselves look even dumber than they ARE. . . .   puddle i was here when  we had 600 post on one thread and yes i gave dean my money and what did joe do with it he bought him self a farm so call me a troll if you want i just want my country back!!! thank you very much!

Same, same: new peeps came and thought Robert and Sitka were the same, despite the fact that both had others who knew them face to face.  Both, in fact, had posted pictures.   Diference is, and always was, that Sitka's an honest political presence.  Robert was always lookin' for a chance to hurt someone.  Bobby seems rather happy over at the McCain blog. 

Good morning, BFA!

********
It appears that some trolls don't sleep ... the perennial Fox is b-a-a-ck!

********
So Daniel, do you even pay taxes? I got the idea that you were still pretty wet behind the years and not even out in the world of work yet. (Can't imagine how I got that idea? LOL)

Hey, puddle! And a BIG Happy Birthday to Subway!

***************
The headline from one of the other stores about this was *Bush Battles for Peace in the Middle East* ... since *battling for peace* is an oxymoron and putz has been singularly uninterested in doing anything that will advance the cause of peace in the ME, I thought that this one was more appropriate. It certainly sets the tone for this charade.

==============
'Peace there won't be, but you look well'
Ian Black
Wednesday November 28, 2007
Guardian

"We're off to a strong start," George Bush quipped at the end of his opening speech to the conference, but he mangled Mahmoud Abbas's first name and fumbled a handshake between the Palestinian president and Israel's prime minister, Ehud Olmert, that didn't quite live up to the occasion's historic billing.

It was a long way from the famous scene on the White House lawn when Bill Clinton brought Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin together after their ill-fated Oslo agreement in 1993.

Annapolis was always described as a "launching pad" for fresh peace talks, and there were early signs of just how difficult those would be.

Abbas and Olmert, both weak leaders with powerful enemies, spoke in their native languages, as if to emphasise just how aware they are of domestic pressures as they begin negotiations.

Technical problems meant the Palestinian leader was several minutes into his address before the English translation could be heard by the hundreds of journalists gathered at the Naval Academy. Security was heavy, with navy divers patrolling the river, helicopters enforcing an aerial exclusion zone and demonstrators kept well away.

American Jewish activists chanted "No peace with terrorists" and a woman in a giant Condoleezza Rice mask protested at the absence of Hamas.

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33138...

It's funny how I left the blog for awhile because I was sick of a few people lecturing and insulting me about not falling in line behind Kerry and the party, and when I came back after the election THEY were all gone. I've wondered if attacking me was the only reason they even came here -- but I figure they were just trying to shove him down our throats.

I left again later because I just couldn't stand Tr0ler. I came back later that time because I thought he was gone, but he'd just changed his moniker. 

But since I'm here now and they're long gone, I guess I'm vindicated somewhat. 

new peeps came and thought Robert and Sitka were the same,

Being called "OLER" has been done to various people here. It's about the lowest insult one can hurl. 

*Immigrate to Israel ... or else ...*

This is one way of showing exactly just how committed to peace the current RW government of Israel is.

The huge waves of Jewish immigration to Israel from the former Soviet Union in the 1990s did much to cause and exacerbate the current untenable position between Jews and Palestinians. It was never a good situation, but there were certainly circumstances that favored peace more at earlier stages than there are now.

===================
Israeli migration agents target German Jews
· Soviet migrants in Nativ agency's sights
· Germany's Jewish council condemns 'offensive' plan
Kate Connolly in Berlin
Wednesday November 28, 2007
Guardian

An Israeli intelligence organisation is to send agents to Germany in an effort to persuade tens of thousands of Jews from the former Soviet Union to settle in Israel.

Representatives of the organisation Nativ are soon to operate on the approval of the Israeli government to "counter the dangerous assimilation of former Soviet Jews in Germany", according to the wording of a decision recently passed by the cabinet of prime minister Ehud Olmert.

Around 200,000 Jews from the former Soviet Union, about 70% of the total community, are currently living in Germany having begun arriving at the invitation of the government in the early 1990s. But their assimilation into what is now the fastest growing Jewish community in the world has been problematic, largely due to linguistic and cultural differences, including varying approaches to defining Jewishness and even sometimes a lack of knowledge about the Holocaust.

The Israeli embassy in Berlin has confirmed that two emissaries from Nativ are due to arrive in Berlin within the next few weeks to start their work, which includes trying to encourage emigration to Israel among the Jews from the former Soviet Union, and offering help with their move on issues such as bureaucratic matters.

The German press has referred to the operation as being "James Bond-like".

[...]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,33138...

Sitka
Wed, 11/28/07
1:31 am

[...]
Being called "OLER" has been done to various people here. It's about the lowest insult one can hurl.

===============
LOL, Sitka, I was one of those who NEVER confused you with him.

***********
And it's time to go, I fear. Keep up the good fight!

Bobby seems rather happy over at the McCain blog.  

I've often wondered why some people don't just find a blog where they'll be happy instead of badmouthing the people on one where they're not.

all is well in the barn tonight, how goes the blog? 

 "Subway" was the first name I gave a calf that was blog related and "Vibes" was her first baby  ... good vibes ... and now she is pregnant, what will be the next generation?

Subway is one of the world's good guys.

thanks puddle

what September Eleventh was is the single biggest failure of a sitting President's responsibilities as head of the Executive Branch , and the authorization to turn that into a war against Iraq, the single biggest failure of the Congressional branch, and the Third Branch got into that act too, installing Bush in the first place

and it has gone downhill from there

Congress has now allowed Bush to throw the Constitution overboard as well.

Sounds of Silence Simon and Garfunkel "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls."

or sung at the station

Happy Birthday Subway Serenade  ...   sending good vibes  ... not that I could match all the good ones you have given out, even here ... but at least a token return

that positive feedback loop is what makes BFA special

time to ignore the debbie downers, and hope I haven't become one somehow

A quick goodnight and I just have to say that Ron Paul would never ever get a vote from me. Good grief, he wants to drown all the social programs that putz hasn't completely destroyed.

Daniel, I enjoy many of your cartoons and posts but the Ron Paul advocacy is way over the top.  He would be fine in a position that would allow him to help end the war, but a danger domestically. 

I wonder if he's being pushed as the new Nader to siphon off votes - and where is Nader BTW? 

Good morning, everybody

Missy Cable left out Chris Dodd.  Too much work, I guess.

There are actually pictures of Sitka out in the blogosphere for anyone that's confused about identities.  Of course, a picture ID won't prove anything will it?

November 26, 2007 - 7:58pm

This week in Iowa Chris Dodd is rolling out his plan for Women and Families-a solid, comprehensive plan that will get results for women across the country. It tackles a range of issues including paid leave, equal pay, women's health, and violence against women.

From women's health issues, to child care support; pay equity, to a woman's right to chose; Chris Dodd has been a strong advocate for women and their families, and his plan only reinforces his past leadership on this issue.

Chris Dodd on Family and Medical Leave:

His Record: Chris Dodd authored the Family and Medical Leave Act and fought for seven years, overcoming two presidential vetoes, until it became law. Since passage, an estimated 50 million workers have been allowed to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave to care for a new child or a sick family member.

His Plan: As President, Chris Dodd will provide 8 weeks of paid leave to care for a sick family member or to welcome a child into the world.

Chris Dodd on Women's Health:

His Record: Chris Dodd was an early supporter of the Women's Health Equity Act, which sought to expand research on women's health issues and establish the Office of Women's Health in the Department of Health and Human Services.

His Plan: As President, Chris Dodd will invest additional research dollars into diseases that disproportionately affect women and fund added research into how diseases and medicines affect women differently than men.

Chris Dodd on Pay Equity:

His Record: Chris Dodd has cosponsored the Paycheck Fairness Act, which would strengthen the landmark Equal Pay Act that mandates equal pay for women and men who do equal work.

His Plan: As President, Chris Dodd will require the Department of Labor to work with employers to eliminate pay disparities. He will also stiffen penalties for employers in violation of the Equal Pay Act.

Chris Dodd on a Woman's Right to Choose:

His Record: Chris Dodd was an early supporter of the Women's Choice and Reproductive Health Protection Act, which would have codified the Roe v. Wade decision guaranteeing a woman's right to choose into federal law. He has also co-sponsored the Equity in Prescription Insurance and Contraceptive Act, which provided increased access to contraceptive services for women.

His Plan: A strong supporter of a woman's right to choose, Chris Dodd will ensure access to women's contraceptive services and equity in prescription drug coverage.

Chris Dodd on High-Quality, Affordable Child Care:

His Record: Chris Dodd authored the Child Care and Development Block Grant program which has provided billions of dollars in federal aid to improve the quality of child care and help low-income families cope with its high cost.

His Plan: As President, Chris Dodd will significantly increase funding for CCDBG and provide incentives for businesses to provide child care for their employees. He will also promote public-private partnerships to strengthen investment in early childhood development.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/28/53853/292

Continuing to catapult the propaganda.  Any thoughts you have on Dodd, please share them with someone who's not familiar with cyber space.

I'm going to use that phrase, "cyber space," more and more often because that's the next domaine that's going to be abused to control us.   

24.  Yes, "they hate you therefor you have to depend on us to protect you" is a well-worn strategy for asserting control.  Implementation costs are minimal.

What I've been wondering is which population is more susceptible to this argument.  Is it people who've been abused at home with whom this message resonnates, or is it people whose positive experience with authority leaves them unprepared to recognize that some people mean them no good?  

I'm inclined to think that an abusive early environment makes people more inclined to heed the warning.  But, I may be wrong. 

I think we need to understand that the neo-cons have special definitions of common words:

 Peace = pacification or pacified

 diplomacy = threat of assault

 work = giving/taking orders

 freedom = obedience 

 rule of law = orders in writing

 enemy = the dis-obedient

 press = klieg lights, aka "third degree," public inquiry 

Ok, I'm going to admit something.

My wife and I watch the Oprah show and we get her monthly O magazine. Often the show and the magazine have informative pieces.

... 

Enough with the Bush and Clinton clans, let move on for goodness sakes.

+++

Fox -

First thing you've said that I agree with.

There are actually pictures of Sitka out in the blogosphere for anyone that's confused about identities.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I say................

For continuing coverage of the beauty contest, please procede to the new Front thread.

DFA is promoting hit pieces on the candidates now, I see. Selective information to make a case for what? You lost me at:

"You should examine which candidates truly represent the people, not the businesses and special interests, and, in my opinion, the only major presidential candidates (that I know of) who even begin to fit that bill are Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Ron Paul."

Yeah, let's support Ron Paul, the man who wants to do away with government as a tool for change. This is senseless. As long as we don't have public funding, money will have to be raised from individuals and bundlers. No money has been accepted from corporations because that is against the law. The only question is who accepts money from lobbyists and PACs who will see it as gaining access and who doesn't.

23.

Robert was always lookin' for a chance to hurt someone.  Bobby seems rather happy over at the McCain blog.   

 Thanks, Puddle. I wondered what happened to him. :) I wonder if he is why McCain is tanking?

This is exactly why I am not settling for politics as usual and going all the way with Dennis Kucinich. Every last dime that has been contributed to the Kucinich campaign has been from the people and as we all know campaign contributions have strings attached.

I know that Dennis will serve the American public FIRST.