Heck! I don't think most progressives know we have values--let alone most voters in general. So I do think a values summit is a good idea. One problem I see with it, however, is that--since authoritianism is not one of our core values (just the reverse, in fact)--we're less likely to achieve any impressive unanimity. In fact, if my experience in the matter is any guide, it could quickly degenerate into a squabbling match the likes of whitch you rarely see outside of professional wrestling. Ground rules and effective leadership would be essential for any kind of meaningful outcome. George Lakoff as keynote speaker?

chris

 yes.. I do think George Lakoff does a great job of tying the various progressive values together into an integrated whole.   I've mentioned the idea  for a progressive values summit to a couple of the Rockridge Institute fellows here in Berkeley and they liked the idea. They were going to bring it up at their weekly staff meeting.

I thought maybe first creating a smaller trial run, Progressive Values Summit to work out the format would be good. It could be held here in Berkeley.  I'm going to bring up the idea to some of the Progressive Churches here and see if they'd help sponsor it with a space.

Closest event like this is the upcoming Center for Community change.
 http://www.communitychange.org/iowa-heartland-forum
They are holding a democratic debate Dec 1. They will ask the candidates about "Community Values".

Format: The candidates will have 20-30 minutes on stage each, in which they will engage community members directly. All candidates will be asked 1 question about Community Values and 2-3 about issues important to working people. The questions will be asked by community members from the Heartland and the candidates will have 2 minutes to respond to each question. 

The Heartland Presidential Forum is shaping up to be the largest gathering of likely caucus-goers leading up to Caucus day!

Over 5,000 every-day people will be there - many of whom haven't yet decided which candidate they will support.  We'll share our real-life stories, concerns and hopes for the future with the candidates and ask how they intend to stand up for community values.

This is a team effort all the way - over two dozen community-based organizations with a combined membership of over 200,000 Iowans have come together to put on the show!  So where are YOU gonna be on December 1st?"

Howard Dean is first here.

 So where are YOU gonna be on December 1st?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

deer camp, it is opening day of deer season

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

but I talked to Chris Dodd about doing a video clip about his progressive values last Thursday and he is willing to make a formal response to DFA if the other candidates are going to be asked the same question for a response to post on BFA. He is going to produce another video about the current administrations threat to our Constitution for me to post on the blog and I did ask him if he would help with the Progressive Values project.

we do know that John Edwards too will likely answer such a question from DFA since he has been very responsive to such request

authoritarian v. democratic values

just using the word  "conservative" awards it positive spin it doesn't deserve

James Webb once said the future of the Dem party lies in rejecting Rubin wing of party.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1392

You know what?  He was right.  This article shows which way the centrist think tanks are taking our party.  I use the word "centrist" rather some others that the blog nanny would not like.

Centrist hawks urge Dems to ignore the "non-interventionist left" wing.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1665

What do you think? Should progressives hold a Progressive Values Summit?

Yes.

When and where?

I like Chris'idea of having George Lakoff be the keynote speaker.

Who would be the Q & A moderator? How about you? You ask great questions and truly listen to the answers.

---

Chris,

You made me laugh.

emailed to me, don't know if i can make it....

greetings
I wanted to let people I've interviewed know, that if you are in the Bay Area, the first meeting of the "What are Progressive Values? Study Group" will be November 27, 2007 in El Cerrito, Ca. At this meeting we'll brainstorm on how to setup the Study Group. The goal of the group is to hold monthly meetings to talk about Progressive Values and how to counter the Conservatives use of values.

A good preparation for the meeting would be to read "Thinking Points" by George Lakoff and the Rockridge Institute. http://rockridgeinstitute.org/thinkingpo...
For more details about the Study Group see:
http://progressivespirit.com/StudyGroup

Meeting times: 6:00 to 7:30
Meeting Place Location: 6830 Stockton Ave. El Cerrito CA.
Fellowship Hall in the United Methodist Church. This is located at the corner of Stockton and Richmond Streets in El Cerrito. Fellowship Hall is in the basement of the church. We'll be meeting just before the regular monthly El Cerrito Democratic Club meetings which start at 7:30. Pizza arrives at 7:00 if you'd like to stay for that. http://www.ecdclub.org

If you haven't done so yet.. please subscribe to the Study Group
Discussion Listserver on Yahoo Groups.
Here we discuss all aspects of Progressive Values. Subscribe to the
discussion list by sending an email to:
ProgressiveValues-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Or by visiting groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgressiveValues

hope to see you there..
Please pass on the word.

all the best

Edwin Rutsch
http://progressivespirit.com

Just a few thoughts on this....

25% of Evangelicals  are Democrats.  In the 2006 election, more than 50% of the Republican Evangelicals DID NOT VOTE.  After Haggard and several others, the REAL Evangelicals faith has been shaken.  After the Republican lies, fraud, obstructing justice, 'secret' doctrines and  people being arrested in bathrooms.... the majority of Evangelicals are very discouraged with the Republican party.  And now they are totally discouraged with the Republican candidates running for office.  At their recent meeting, they very bluntly said; with the choices they have - they are very likely to go for a Third Party.

Having meetings on Values might be o.k. ...as long as it doesn't look like we're engraving a 'fish' on our license plates.  WE HAVE VALUES, most Americans know that and we will sweep the elections in 2008.  Some people might even feel put off by Democrats having to have meetings and STATE their values.  Reminds them of Republicans..

….Most important, we will talk about Democratic values, which are America’s values.  The vast majority of Americans believe it is immoral to lets kids go hungry. We agree. The other party cuts school lunches (they just can’t seem to leave that one alone.)

Americans believe it is immoral that not everyone has some kind of health insurance. We agree.  The vast majority of Americans believe that government overreaching into personal and family decisions is wrong. We agree.

Americans believe that it is immoral to leave huge debts to our children and grandchildren. We agree.

Americans believe that using issues to divide us as a country to win elections is bad for America. We will restore America’s sense of community  Together, America can do better. And in 2006, the Democrats will lead America to do just that.

 The Oakland DFA holds it's "Presidential Potpourri" Meetup on Dec 5. http://dfa.meetup.com/78/calendar/6699715/

There  will be representatives from most of the campaigns..   We're gathering a list of questions for them..  I'm trying to get the campaigns to talk about progressive vales. Here are the one's I've proposed.

-    What does your candidate feel about the values debate?
-    How will your candidate take on the conservatives in the values debate?
-    What does your candidate feel progressive values are and how do they contrast to conservative values?
-    What values do you personally feel your candidate represents to you and why?
-    At what moment did you feel the most emotion with your candidate and what value was touched in yourself?

the idea of a Progressive Values Summit is to hold it at the exact same time as the Conservative Values summit.  Right down the street ideally.  So it could be whenever they schedual thiers.   This year it was in October in Washington DC.  Because of the election, I imagine they may move it up in time to inflluence the election.   

Lakoff and all the Fellows at the Rockridge Institiute would be the best speakers for sure.

this is Joe Brewer, a Fellow there.

Progressive Values? Joe Brewer - Empathy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-3mFOn4Qy8

 And Eric Hass- a senior fellow at Rockridge

Progressive Values? Eric Haas - Empathy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lluOFA0mZ4A

Progressive Values Characterized As? Eric Haas - Weak
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-EtIH9FUKc4

Progressive Values Metaphors? Eric Haas -Mother Bear v Virus
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E7YRQl1XPZM

 At what moment did you feel the most emotion with your candidate and what value was touched in yourself?

what value was touched? Sounds so intellectual~

It's not about progressive or any other values for that matter.
What interests do progressives represent?
Politics is not about values.
Religions are about values.
It's not about ideology that wants to propagate itself against all evidence

It's about survival. Ideally survival with love~

.

ya, and right on!!!

Hastert Resigns Tonight

After months of playing coy about when he would depart, Rep. J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) bid his official farewell to the House today.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-b...

the rats are jumping ship as uss shit-for-brains heads for the rocks...

i disagree, sunlight, politics is absolutely about values. otherwise, its the values of the individual over the group that weighs most. religion doesn't have the lock on belief systems.

5.   I see that comment periodically.. People say this is not true conservatism what we see now.  but isn't it the new conservatism.. forget the past ideals and  virtues... 

what we see now is what it is now.   take a look at Max's video
Theocracy Now! At the Value Voters Summit 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhn43BmdWM

If there are other conservatives with different values..  where have they been for the past 20 years?

11:22

Centrist hawks urge Dems to ignore the "non-interventionist left" wing.

How many Americans are "pro-interventionist right" outside of the DLC/NeoCon cabal?

Only a few nuts. 

survival is a demand. a demand to receive an adequate piece so as to feel comfortable in the interaction of work. without an adequate piece, most will fall to the powers that be, some will fight for the right to earn as a price of labor.

i remember sitting quietly in a large urban park by a lake-side as ducks began to establish pecking order. the majority following the leader stalked the weaker until they pinned it down for the leader to forcefully pluck the feathers from the neck of the looser as the rest wailed loudly. the weaker squealed loudly to no avail. he others laughed at the prospect of a future meal. then they all waddled away leaving the weaker to suffer in pain alone.

does this sound very different from human behavior? are we really not descendant from the animals as those evangicals would have us believe???

the rats are jumping ship as uss shit-for-brains heads for the rocks...

Just learned tonight that the reason Trent Loot is bailing on his Senate seat is a new law takes effect in January which will bar public officials from lobbying for two years after they leave office. Sounds like what Hastert is doing too. There's big money to be made bribing their former "colleagues with corporate cash.

Maybe some of corrupt Dems will take a hike too. I'd rather have them trying to bribe that being bribed.

i disagree, sunlight,

mprov
Mon, 11/26/07
10:55 pm

Gee, are you clairvoyant? Wow, you have the power!  Responding to my post 5 minutes before I posted it.!

politics is absolutely about values. otherwise, its the values of the individual over the group that weighs most.
I don't know. Maybe it's the realization of the individuals that it's best for their interest to form a group.
What is the foremost interest of the individual ? Survival.
You determine under what condition you want to survive or die.

religion doesn't have the lock on belief systems.
Agreed.

….Most important, we will talk about Democratic values, which are America’s values.

Which, unfortunately, are NOT the values of about half the DCDems. 

Howard Dean said that NCLB was geared to make all public schools failing by 2013.  Looks like he was right.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1662

sunlight, my point is that the progression of humankind is one beyond survival as an instrument of either motivation or violence as a tool of persuasion.

9.   sam ..   the thing is not to do it like the republicans and conservatives do. There's a certain self-righteousness to what they do..  I think that's what puts Democrats off about the values debate/discussion.. they don't want to take part in the self-righteousness.  They tend to realize they're not perfect, not always caring, not always democratic, not always empathic, etc.  but that's part of the discussion. by not engaging in the debate,, the conservatives have the whole field to themselves. 

 Also, if you look at some of the clips from the Values Voters Summit and how conservatives talk.. they actually do not even debate at a values level very well.. In my opinion Conservatives are not very good at talking about values.. it's just that Progressives have left the field to them.

I've interviewed about 60 or 70 Progressives so far, and they do a great job of talking, in a heart felt way, about their values. Just nobody asks. 
http://youtube.com/group/ProgressiveValues

The Press is totally incapable of asking questions. It's like religion.. They don't dare question anyone's beliefs.  It's like a taboo.    Compassionate conservative was a big part of the past campaign.. have you seen a single article about the nature of compassion.. if conservatives delivered on their compassion? analyzing their actions in relationship to compassion.  I haven't.

my point is that the progression of humankind is one beyond survival as an instrument of either motivation or violence as a tool of persuasion.

Yes, you are right. Humankind should be so advanced as to be beyond survival.
But the violence that is so prevalent proves otherwise.

    I think you are absolutely right, put ten progressives in a room and confront them with an issue and you can easily get thirty opinions!  A well respected speaker is key, as well as ground rules and definitions of terms.  For instance, what is a progressive anyway?  I know what I think the answer to that question is, but I've heard some answers I disagree with.

If there are other conservatives with different values..  where have they been for the past 20 years?

RealCons have let the same thing happen to their party that RealLibs have let happen to theirs. They have allowed their principles to be suborned by corrupt politicians who tell them that winning is what matters most.

After the 2004 election, the GOP finally controlled every branch of government. But what did they deliver to RealCons who had waited a decade for their hopes to be enacted? Nothing. They didn't even try to enact a conservative agenda. And DCDemocrats were too spineless to even try to stop them had they made the attempt.

It's looking very possible the Democrats will control Congress and the WH in 2009, but don't get giddy at the prospect of them enacting a liberal agenda. That's because the Bipartisan Corporatist Conspiracy will still be calling the shots until the Real People of both parties root and boot them out.

57.

FRED from OR
Mon, 11/26/07
11:37 pm

Reply to this

55.

Sam Ross
=============

Sorry Ross. I was not thinking of you. I was thinking of Rooney. It is like when you call someone by another's name. I do that a lot, especially when upset.

i remember when most people thought that it was an abstract that we could ever actually reach the moon. those that believed in the prospect endeavored on until it was a reality. a small thing, really, in the extant of humankind, yet a reach beyond.

imagine.

imagine.

imagine.

a simple concept with completely open boarders.

want some?

i think that if a human can think of it that it is possible.

14.   "Politics is not about values.
Religions are about values"

 seems to me values are woven thought everything we do..  actually the value that's not talked about often is Power. ... which is part of politics.   The last person I talked to at the CA Eboard told me, "this is all about power."  I tried to get her on tape talking about it,, I thought that was a great comment, especially since no one else had mentioned power.  However, she wouldn't go on tape..  She was a Hilary Clinton supporter, not sure if that's relevant.   ;-)

Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) signed on only to leverage more money from the federal government and would be happy to let the accountability system fade away;

When TK signed on to NCLB was when I knew he was over the hill as a liberal leader and willing to sell the future for a short term payoff in cash. 

Where's Sheri Divers....taking a vacation from the nuisances here at the blog?

I like her posts.

 i think that if a human can think of it that it is possible.

Yes, but that makes it so much more important to make sure that what you think of is guaranteeing your survival or in the least not hindering it.

In my job as Platform Chair I have had to have the group generate a Statement of Principles which makes the case as to why individual planks in the platform fit the Democratic Party values.

There will be 1700 plus of these discussions in Iowa in about a month as every precinct takes up platform business as well as an allocation of delegates to Denver by Presidential preference.

Those that caucus as "progressives" do see themselves as the anti "Republican intolerance and war Party", the loyal opposition. so Peace and Tolerance are the paramount values when faced with war and bigotry.

but "liberty and justice for all" have devotees (no justice,no peace)

one of the discussions I lead is always to ask for a definition of justice, and another of what are our "inalienable rights"

"Is health care a right?"

"Is health care a right?"

In an advanced civilization?

Where everybody learns in school and home the definition of justice and inalienable rights.

Okay, thanks for listening. Only a voice expressed can be heard....when you are heard you know you are living~

sunlight give me a definition of justice in your words

when you are heard you know you are living

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

progressives are "good listeners"?

affirm the worth and dignity of every one of us not some priviledged few

Justice

You don't get away with doing the wrong thing. However long it takes.

can you say that in positive words?

we always try and write everything in positive terms what we are for, not against (even though many people become involved trying to stop something they don't like as much as promoting something they do)

Progressive Values ARE American Values!

http://jim.musicalprogress.org/AmericanValues

 You Tube video of the song coming soon.

 Enjoy,

Jim Herrmann

nite all, good discussion

if peace is a value is a Department of Peace valuable?

can you say that in positive words?

Justice makes sure that right is might! Justice protects your right to be.

Host: Keith Olbermann

Topics/Guests:

• IRAQ OF AGES: Richard Wolffe, Thomas Ricks
• TRENT LOTT: Eugene Robinson
• HILLARY VS BARACK: Craig Crawford

Bush! Iraq! America for Sale! McClellan! (Again!) "GOP In Crisis"! [Ding!]. Trent Lott! Clinton! Obama! "Mister" Bush Photo-Op! [Ding!] Simpsons! It's a rainy day and a Monday, and if that isn't enough to get you down...Oralmann is back.

#5: "Mister" Bush signs away the constitution! "3-6-Pix" Olbermahn was off and running. Mister dares to side with the legally elected government of Iraq? Scandal! The Wolffe Man didn't exactly bite on Keith's Krazy Konspiracy that Bush is trying to install Maliki as a dictator. Oh, and McClellan! Great thanks.

Ricks chimed in: we can't win, we can't lose, we can't leave. Ricks contradicts Olbermann's lie that Petraeus's testimony was "vetted" by the White House. Oops, you don't do that on OlbyPlanet. KO slips and acknowledges a "calming down" in Iraq. A rather rocky segment for The Hour of Spin. With a Citizen Kane reference.

#4: Trent Lott "just became a former Senator". Oh really? Is Monkeymann so inept that he can't even read a simple headline? But then again we know Merkle has chronology issues (BC, AD, whatever!). Nixon! [Ding!] Strom Thurmond redux. Lott's reasons are "ridiculous". Republicans famous for buying seats in Congress.

#3: Clinton vs Obama. Olby, worried that Hillary may be on the defensive, played up a phony issue about Obama funding that pales in comparison with, say, Buddhist temples and Norman Hsu, neither of which gets much play on OlbyPlanet. KO got Olbermann's Brain to agree with him that Oprah will backfire because so many people dislike her. Well, misogynists and racists do anyhow, right Keith? A little Rudy hit and then it was...Great thanks.

#2: Bragging about his Simpsons appearance. He actually ran the entire segment! (Why did Fox give Fat Ass permission to run the clip anyhow?) Then a replay of his WPitNFL from Sunday! (Somehow he avoided his ignorant faux pas about the Rocky Mountains.) #1: Nobel winners at the White House.

In the Media Matters Minute, it was "Bathtub Head" [Ding!] Gibson (Blue Blog Source: Think Progress), Rudy Giuliani (Blue Blog Source: HuffPo), and the NY Post (Blue Blog Source: Think Progress).

Dogs That Did Not Bark: For months Oralmann has been promoting, covering for, propagandizing on behalf of, and generally slobbering over Hillary Clinton and how strong she runs and how badly she will beat the Republican, whoever it is. But Fat Ass only cites poll numbers when they are on his side. If those pesky citizens find their sympathies swaying in a different direction, the story will always be spiked on OlbyPlanet. So it is today, as a shift in the polls finds Hillary on the losing end of the electoral stick. And, predictably, The Hour of Spin is wholly, utterly silent.
Olbermann watch rocks, it makes watching the show hillarious.

43.  Peace is, of course, valuable.  Dept of State is Dept. of Peace.  We just need an administration that understands that.

If anybody can talk me into voting for Hillary, you can. 

34.    Someone said to one of my questions.,, that sounds intellectual ( 14.)

just as peace, justice, liberty etc can sound intellectual..  however, once I find the value that people identify as being progressive, I try to find the personal story behind the values. That's were the emotional part is.   I'll also ask for metaphors etc. maybe act it out or   make a song of it like 41.Jim Herrmann. 

It's easier for most people to do it in person than by writing posts.  I think the values get more interesting when you bring the arts into it. (that will be stage 2 or our Progressive Values Project)   Here's a clip I made exploring the experience of Inspiration.  Which certainly can lead to the progressive value of fulfilment. it has art, stories and acting. I'm the first person, joan is second..

Artists Act Out Signs of Inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkemNHiB5o0
 

I'd like to see the conservative try that out. ;-) 

 if you're ready for more. here's where we turned an experience of inspiration into a song. we wrote it and then performed it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l3_f8eLkkUo
and with music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VsgOOdkyA

Good morning, BFA! My computer is being frustratingly slow this am and so can't post much.

***********
About values ... my take is sort of like that on religion. It has been my experience that those who profess their *values* (and religion) in the loudest and most ostentatious fashions are most often those whose lives reflect hypocrisy to the nth degree.

It is in living one's life that one's values are expressed. Actions speak louder than words.

On the other hand, in this controlled media age where certain *values* are deliberately promoted and others are deliberately hidden or slandered, it is worthwhile discussing how we can best combat the slurs.

JMO ... and that's all I have time for now.

Have good ones, all!

A quick post.

Perhaps we could talk about what (family) values are not, which would draw stark comparisons to the neo-cons.

Example:  War and killing are not family values; corruption is not a family value; lying is not a family value; torture is not a family value; greed is not a family value; rendition is not a family value; oursourcing is not a family value; outing CIA  operatives is not a family value; losing homes is not a family value; letting children go hungry and sick is not a family value etc.

There is no way the righties can respond to this unless they claim that all these things ARE family values.  We need to be very smart so they don't control the conversation about values.   If they claim that marriage between a man and women is a family value, we remind them of Haggard and the foot stomping married guy. If they start crowing about choice, we remind voters that putz vetoed a bill that would provide health insurance to all those babies they want to be born only to get sick and die young or grow up and die in putz's endless wars.

If I can figure out this easy stuff, why can't the dems?

I can see an ad now:  "The republicans are against choice and privacy.....so that the children born can grow up and get killed in endless republican wars."   Is this too harsh?  Tough!  I say get down and dirty and harsh as hell with these criminals. We don't even have to cheat or lie.  But we do need to shape public perception better than the scogs in progress.  I don't know what scogs means - it just came to me.  LOL

Impeach!  Now!   

Sometimes the best way to find out who we are, is to uncover who we are not.

ROFL

No man can serve two masters.
-quoted in Wit and Wisdom of Mark Twain,

Sleep well, friends. 

Good morning, everybody

The right aren't pro anything.  They're simply obedient.

See ATTITUDES