Howard of course ifs always always first.

From last thread

Oh, and Hillary, whose big interest is children did not show up at her Committee's hearing on lead in children's toys coming from China. 

Monica is there somewhere to link this?  A friend of mine in Iowa is teetering on the fence with Hillary, I think this can push her over to another candidate.

For anyone interested here is the new Reuters poll which came out yesterday. Race is tightening.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2061107620071121

http://www.swfup.com/file/59662

2.  The committee meeting can be found here:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=95cd1846-802a-23ad-4119-d05798c0417f 

I haven't been able to find a transcript and you really have to watch

to see that she's not there to make a statement.  A least a half dozen 

Senators did, including Craig of idaho. 

Becky Zitz
Tue, 11/20/07
3:54 pm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Middle and High School must have been interesting times.....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M06Op0b9Ec

I'm gonna have to keep repeating this because the corporate media keep repeating that no reconcilliation has been reached in Iraq.  Well, OK, they didn't meet in Iraq; they got together in Helsinki.

Representatives of Iraqi parties and blocs held discussions in Finland from August 31 through September 3, 2007 and agreed to consult further on the following recommendations to start negotiations to reach national reconciliation:

1.To resolve all political issues through non-violence and democracy.
2.To prohibit the use of arms for all armed groups during the process of negotiations.
3.To form an independent commission approved by all parties, its task being to supervise the process of disarmament of non-governmental armed groups in a verifiable manner.
4.All parties will commit to accept the results of the negotiations and no party can be subject to a threat of force form any groups that reject all or part of any agreement reached.
5.To work to end international and regional interference in internal Iraqi affairs.
6.To commit to protect human rights.
7.To assure the independence and efficiency of the legal and justice systems, especially the constitutional court.
8.To ensure the full participation of all Iraqi parties and blocs in the political process and agreed governance arrangements.
9.To take all necessary steps to end all violence, killings, forced displacement and any further damage to infrastructure.
10.To establish an independent consultive body to explore ways to deal with the legacy of the past in a way that will unite the nation.
11.All Iraqi parties and blocs have to build Iraq and contribute efficiently to support all the efforts that would make the political process and Iraqi unity successful and to preserve its sovereignty.
12.All participating groups must commit to all of the principles listed here as a complete system of rules.

Political Objectives:

1- To be rational in political speeches, for the national interest, and to move away from sectarian and ethnic dispute.

2- To bring an end to the displacement of Iraqi people and work to take care of those displaced, and secure their safe return, with guarantees of their safety by the national forces in co-operation with political parties and tribal leaders.

3- To deal with the subject of militias under the following procedures:

A- Arming, supplying, training and making sure that the security forces (army/police) are capable of undertaking their duties efficiently. Make sure that the security forces are equipped to adequate levels to achieve an effective national force.

B- Activation of economic development across the country, to contain youth unemployment and use the effors of young people to rebuild in order to improve the quality of life for all citizens.

C- Those working outside the law and using military resources inappropriately shall be brought to justice, with no differentiation.

4- The emphasis on the common vision for all Iraqi political entities on the importance of termination of the presence of foreign troops in Iraq through the completion of national sovereignty and rebuilding a national army and security apparatus according to a national vision within a realistic timetable.

5- An emphasis on the continuation of constructive dialogue between different political groups aiming to fulfill national goals.

6- To convince political groups that are currently outside the political process to initiate and activate a constructive dialogue to reach common understandings.

7- To deal with armed groups which are not classified as terrorist, encouraging them to use peaceful political means to address the conflict and to provide their members with jobs and opportunities within state administrations.

8- Working towards correcting the misunderstanding that accompanied the political process and encourage all Iraqi political parties to participate in building Iraq in all aspects.

9- The cessation of the violation of the human rights of Iraqi citizens and their properties by continuous bombardment and military actions by foreign forces. The Iraqi government must take responsibility to protect innocent civilians.

END

 

Thank you Monica.

Here is a beautiful diary from Kos

What I Learned When I Was Ten

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/20/21350/887

Oh, and Hillary, whose big interest is children did not show up at her Committee's hearing on lead in children's toys coming from China.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~You can't expect a candidate for President to make every committee meeting.

that would be a bit shallow of a basis for such a weighty decision

of course the stampede of the jaywalkers that every close election swings on; are decided on just such issues, but good heavens there are real differences between the candidates 

Hillary lost me for good with her Iran War authorization vote.

Scott McClellen has joined Colin Powell in the "Honesty Hindsight" club - along with Connecticut voters who cast their ballots for Joe-BombIran-mentum.

phil, crust--the filling's an added bonus.

Well, damn.  I found the interview with George and Laura on the web, but, it's been re-edited.  It doesn't have anything about Hillary or Obama or George metioning klieg lights--though Charlie Gibson does mention them.

November 20, 2007, 2:01 pm
Dianne Feinstein: Backlash on the Left

By The Editorial Board

Liberal California Democrats — and liberal bloggers — have a new Public Enemy No. 1: Senator Dianne Feinstein. They have begun to make their objections very public.

Senator Feinstein, Democrat of California, has disappointed liberals on a series of key votes in recent weeks. She provided the pivotal vote on the Judiciary Committee in favor of Leslie Southwick, a judicial nominee whom civil rights groups tried to block because of his bad record on race and gay rights.

http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...

California Sues a Voting Machine Maker Over Changes

By REBECCA CATHCART
Published: November 21, 2007

The California secretary of state, Debra Bowen, filed a lawsuit yesterday against a voting machine manufacturer for the reported sale of uncertified machines to five counties in northern California.

The suit follows an investigation that Ms. Bowen began in July after an employee of the company, Election Systems and Software Inc., mentioned to her that changes had been made to machines bought by the counties. After a similar suit against Diebold Election Systems in 2003, California required that all changes made to voting machines be reported to its secretary of state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/us/21v...

10.  No, Phil, I don't expect the Senator to be at every hearing (there were 30+ of the environmental committee in the first ten months of 2007 and three of her sub-committee on superfund, which she chairs).  However, EXPERIENCE is one of her top issues and I was looking for some evidence of management experience in her committee work.  Seven years in the Senate, six as a member of the minority, is not likely to provide much opportunity for legislative or executive experience.  So, why tout it? 

It seems to me that this is another example of a strategy that calls for highlighting your weaknesses as your strengths and difusing the opposition before it raises its head.  I have been irked from the very beginning by her claiming the health care debacle as some sort of achievement because she has "the scars to prove it."  It's a stupid, insensitive theme and grossly irksome because I don't like to see anyone being stupid.

So, that's two themes that ring false--experience and health care for everyone.  Actually, they don't ring false; there's nothing there.

If the President of the U.S. were some sort of figure head like the Queen of England, then Hillary could claim to be experienced in looking pleasant and globe-trotting to represent the country with just a little less pomp and circumstance than the Queen merits.  There are a lot of people who have died really horrible deaths because of the people who put George in the White House and it looks like the same people are pushing Hillary.

In the video clip with Charlie Gibson that they have running now, George ends with the hope that the veterans will get what they need when the bureaucracy starts running smoothly.  It's enough to make one want to spit nails. 

Monica

I find Hillary to be not atypical for a Senator candidate instead of say a Governor.

and any good candidate runs with a theme of trying to be positive in the areas you are vulnerable

what I want to see as a Senator is what was the issue you sunk your teeth into and pushed through?

since Democrats have been in the minority many years none of them have much to crow about lately

so some of the major accomplishments have just been playing good defense and stopping bad Republican bills

NO  votes count with me too

but I'm not going to be holding an imaginary lack of concern of Hillary for children against her because that charge won't stick.

7.

Monica Smith
Wed, 11/21/07
8:42 am

I'm gonna have to keep repeating this because the corporate media keep repeating that no reconcilliation has been reached in Iraq. Well, OK, they didn't meet in Iraq; they got together in Helsinki.


Representatives of Iraqi parties and blocs held discussions in Finland from August 31 through September 3, 2007 and agreed to consult further on the following recommendations to start negotiations to reach national reconciliation:
---------------

Curious if Maliki government participated in these gatherings?

7.

Monica Smith
Wed, 11/21/07
8:42 am
--------

Monica, link?

Hillary's spreading the Democratic lie

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_karen_fi_071120_hillary_clinton_s_ly.htm

Hillary Clinton told the American people that the Democratic Party cannot end the war in Iraq because they don’t have enough votes in the House or Senate, and they need 60 in the Senate. Hillary Clinton passed the buck on Iraq to the Republicans with this outright lie.  

In the case at hand, how many Senate votes does it take to leave Iraq? Hillary Clinton says “60”. BZZZZZZ! Sorry, next contestant. Our next contestant is “Deep Throat II” aka Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich. Recently Rob Kall, the editor of OpEdNews.com interviewed Congressman Kucinich on this very point, here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_071025_interview_with_denni.htm   This is where Congressman Kucinich spilled the beans on the Democratic leadership, the game they are playing with the American public, and the real rules of the United States Congress which allow the Democrats to end the Iraq War tomorrow, tomorrow!

In November 2006 the American people elected a Democratic Congress, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House. This allowed the Democrats to elect Harry Reid as the Senate Majority Leader and Nancy Pelosi as the Speaker of the House of Representatives. According to the official rules of the Congress, only the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid or the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi can refer a bill to committee and then to the floor for a vote. This is the power of the purse which the American people gave to the Democratic Party last November as an expression of their will to leave Iraq immediately. In other words, if Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi decides to kill any war funding bill by not referring it to committee or the floor it’s dead.  

Without a war funding bill the American troops in Iraq will not have gasoline to drive their tanks, or bullets, and they will not be allowed to get killed or maimed anymore.  

I just posted 18, which was shoe-hoprned in ahead of 19 and 20. It is now 10:27

Are the blog techies really as stupid and incompetent as they seem with this blog clock nonsense?

maybe some addresses are run through NSA servers and not others?

10:33

mprov
Wed, 11/21/07
9:31 am

*************************************

I posted a remark on that article - which of course that no one would challenge Feinstein, since she is so firmly entrenched.

I have no doubts that there is a movement underway in California that will find a solid challenger to Feinstein before she is up for re-election in 2012.

....which of course {claimed} that no one would challenge  . . . . . .

Phil Specht
Wed, 11/21/07
10:25 am

Reply to this

***************************************

The NSA theory would perhaps explain the timelag. Otherwise, someone could be monitoring comments from Burlington - which I suppose would be o.k.

OK, I'll try again to post what I found--

President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush said Tuesday that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's experience as first lady has prepared her to handle the "pressure" of a presidential race and the White House, and the president said he believes Clinton will win the Democratic nomination but lose the presidency next year.

In an exclusive interview with Charles Gibson airing on Tuesday's World News, Bush acknowledged telling an author recently that he thinks Clinton, D-N.Y., will be the Democratic nominee in 2008 -- in part because of her experience living in the White House as first lady from 1993 through 2001.

"I think she's a very formidable candidate, and one of the interesting things that she brings is that she has been under pressure. She understands the klieg lights," the president said, in a phrase he repeated twice in the interview.

 [.....]

 I have posted the transcript on Hannah, just in case it gets lost.

david, feinstein will be 79 in 2012. likely this is her last term anyway??? we do need some fresh blood though.

21.  I suggest you google "Helsinki Agreement" 

The agreement itself I found as a pdf file, downloaded and transcribed to Hannah, since you can't copy pdf files--that's their purpose, to keep them from being easily edited.

If you like, I could upload the pdf to our DFALink page for archiving.  Perhaps I'll do that anyway. 

Don Hazen
AlterNet
November 21, 2007

If you think we are living in scary times, your worst fears may be confirmed by reading Naomi Wolf’s newest book, The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot. In it, Wolf proves the old axiom that history does repeat itself. Or more accurately, history occurs in patterns, and in order to understand where our country is today and where it is headed, we need to read the history books.

Wolf began by diving into the early years leading up to fascist regimes, like the ones led by Hitler and Mussolini. And the patterns that she found in those, and others all over the world, made her hair stand on end. In “The End of America,” she lays out the 10 steps that dictators (or aspiring dictators) take in order to shut down an open society. “Each of those ten steps is now under way in the United States today,” she writes.

If we want an open society, she warns, we must pay attention and we must fight to protect democracy.

I met with Wolf to discuss what she learned while researching this book, how the American public has received her warnings, and what we can do to squelch the fascist narratives we are fed in this country each day.

Don Hazen: Let’s take up a big question first — your fears about the upcoming U.S. presidential election and what the historical blue print about fascist takeovers shows in terms of elections.

Naomi Wolf: We would be naive given the historical patterns to have hope that there’s going to be a transparent, accountable election in 2008. There are various ways the blueprint indicates how events are much more likely to play out. Historically, the months leading up to the national election are likely to be unstable.

What classically happens is either there will be a period of provocation, and we have a history of this in the United States — agitators who are dressed as or act like activist voter registration workers, anti-war marchers … but who engage in actual violence, torch property, assault police officers. And that scares people. People are much less likely to vote for change when they’re scared, and it gives them the excuse to crack down.

In addition, I’m concerned about the 2007 Defense Authorization Act, which makes it much easier for the president to declare martial law.

30.

Monica Smith
Wed, 11/21/07
11:13 am

21. I suggest you google "Helsinki Agreement"
--------

Thanks.

19.  Oh, I don't doubt a lack of concern.  But, for example, if she were effective, wouldn't she have seen to it that mothers on welfare would get credit for caring for their children, instead of insisting that they go out to work and put the children in day-care as part of the welfare reform movement? 

How many of the jobs created in the nineties are simply people getting paid minimally for what they used to be able to do for free when the wage earner in a household was able to earn enough money to buy all the things they needed to buy?  

While it's good for women to get paid for the work they do, paid work is not a measure of a well-functioning society.  More people getting paid merely means that the economy has been "grown" even as the service provided is actually less--as when an infant spends two hours a day strapped into a car seat instead of learning to crawl and babble and play with sunbeams on the floor.

The violent crime has increased significantly is not a happenstance and it's not the consequence of fewer cops on the street.  That there were more hate crimes reported last year is also not just a happenstance--it's the consequence of people feeling desperate needing somebody to blame. 

http://www.dfalink.com/uploads/files/65047445c4084638/Helsinki_agreement_English.pdf

http://www.cmi.fi/files/Helsinki_agreeme...

Yep, looks like it is not entirely open information, I mean not been approved by official Iraq's government handler..., lol.

Seems THAT might be the larger reason for the recent "surge success"..., lol.

Parental site is interesting by itself.
http://www.cmi.fi/

I've been meaning to follow up in this:

September 4, 2007 – After four days of discussions in Finland, 16 delegates from Sunni and Shiite groups in Iraq have agreed to a 12-point framework intended to guide Iraq to a lasting peace.

The secret talks were organized by the University of Massachusetts Boston’s John W. McCormack Graduate School of Policy Studies and Helsinki-based Crisis Management Initiative. Helping lead the discussions were several veterans of the peace processes in Northern Ireland and South Africa, including McCormack Graduate School’s Padraig O’Malley, holder of the John Joseph Moakley Chair of Peace and Reconciliation.

“The road to reconciliation in Iraq, like in any fractured society, is long and tortured,” said McCormack Graduate School Dean Steve Crosby, “but we hope that Padraig O’Malley can use the expertise that he’s gathered in Northern Ireland and South Africa over the years, and the legacy of Joe Moakley, to get the journey on that road started.”

For whatever reasons I don't know, I have not been able to view the ads on Move-On for two days. Tinkering with my online setting haven't made any difference.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Political cartoons are to be humorous. I don't think this one fits the profile. I called the Center for American Progress office in DC to let them know my opinion. Perhaps if the Center for American Progress' DC political operatives had attended a few funerals they would have known to make a respectful choice for their Thanksgiving Holiday message to the world. The person I spoke with on the telephone seemed to be clueless to my concerns about their cartoon choice of the day.

You can view the disrespectful cartoon HERE: http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons...

btw, This it not the first time that I have had to call them regarding their cartoon of day choice. One cartoon they actually did remove from their website.

37. better link.

You can view the disrespectful cartoon HERE: http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons...

Monica Smith
Wed, 11/21/07
8:42 am

So are you arguing the surge has worked and Iraq is now dealing with the political benchmarks?

I don't think that is occurring. Where is the action (politically) on those noble goals you posted above? The thinking that just because they came up with principles that sound and look good on paper means there has been "reconciliation" is simplistic.

We need to see results flowing FROM that meeting. And so far there are precious few results that I can find. Maybe you can find them. If so, list the results rather than pretty goals and words.

41.  No, Indy.  The surge has not worked.  Some of the leaders of Iraq have reached a decision that they would lay down their arms against each other and promote the removal of foreign forces from their country.

When Bush Two talks about Al Anbar provice, he's talking about an area the size of Utah which had about 120,000 people and 3,000,000 sheep.  The al Qaeda in Iraq was like the dog that ate my homework.  Whenever the Marines asked the locals,"who did that?" they pointed the finger at al Qaeda.  

And then there's the report that troops on patrol don't.  they go and sit somewhere and call in from time to time.  They know that breaking down people's doors is not nice. 

Monica Smith
Wed, 11/21/07
12:21 pm

Agree...not to mention that Baghdad has been forcefully partitioned throught violence and walls which has brought the civilian violence down. I'd still like to see any progress made since the September agreement. My feeling is that all the conflicting parties were not at the table anyway.

The lack of political solutions in Iraq still calls for Congress to stand firm and refuse to fund Bush's surge/occupation. No blank checks. We've got to double the pressure now before the senate DINOs and House BushBluedogs cave.

Here is an interesting report from Iraq from a progressive candidate in CO. I met Jared in Chicago at YearlyKos and he is taking the initiative to travel to Iraq on his own. Out of the box for a Dem challenger in a primary.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/21/65327/599 

There is a live blog today from Baghdad.

Please visit http://www.polisforcongress.com/ for details on the following:

Wednesday, November 21, 2007
Blog Live with Jared from Iraq 12:00 Noon MST
Wendy Norris to moderate on www.ColoradoConfidential.com
Cross posted on DailyKos.com, SquareState.com and MyDD.com

Friday, November 23, 2007
Live Conference Call with Jared at 12:00 Noon MST from the Middle East (Amman, Jordan).

For participants and the press: The call in number for participants and the press is: 1-866-447-5149 PIN: 13364

 Also please consider making a donation toJared. We need more people in Congress like Jared! http://www.polisforcongress.com/

raw nasty weather here, freezing drizzle and a biting wind

safe travel all

the main drop in violence was when we stopped chasing baathist Sunni leaders after Cheney got the word from his boss in Saudi Arabia

study the timeline, and where Cheney was when the violence in Anbar ended

talk to Turkey and Iran and make similar deals and end the occupation and you might even end up with a country after we leave

37-38

I don't see anything offensive about this cartoon. We should be thankful to those who gave their lives in service to their country.

what happened to Michael Ware reporting from Iraq? What happened to ANY reporting from Iraq?

Bush now telling congress to give him money or else. What? hold his breath?

SOB.

TWO CHANCES TO SAVE THE WORLD

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_david_sw_071121_two_chances_to_chang.htm

We're headed rapidly toward a disastrous attack on Iran, an acceptance of permanent occupation of Iraq, over 1,000 US military bases in other people's countries, and the point of no turning back on global warming.

No matter how deeply your television has ingrained into your head the anti-democratic notion that the candidates you like and the candidates you should support are two different things, you can still use the money-soaked corrupt primary system we have to impact Congress immediately and reverse the apocalyptic direction of Washington.

What I want to know is............... Progressive the word dejour? Hillary came to the TBA conf and said she was progressive. Oh no you aren't.

Be very afraid of those in sheep's clothing.

Bush now telling congress to give him money or else. What? hold his breath?

The Dems will fold...........again.

They'll fall for the old "support the troops" meme, even though giving in to Bush will have exactly the opposite effect.

Is Dodd the only one talking about McClellan?  Where are the rest of the candidates? Where are the dems?  But of course, the holidays are upon us and by Monday, it'll be forgotten.  Aren't the dems all going to sate themselves or is Reid still holding them over?

And what red-blooded, blood thirsty American wants to hear about an impeachable president while stuffing his face with turkey and watching football?  The bush clones must be kept in line.   The timing of the book *tease* release by McClellan is suspicious.

There will be some other news on Monday to kick it off but hopefully Keithie will keep it alive.   

bbl 

Oh, one more thing.  Dems love to nominate senators who lose every time, since JFK.  The repubs put up governors, who win.

Clinton vs Huckabee.  Slam dunk for the guv.  He's mild mannered and the kind you'd want to invite to a bar-b-q.  Same playbook, different faces.

Are the dems really that stupid?   

PREPARING TO BLOW THE 08 ELECTION

http://www.alternet.org/audits/68396/

Democrats are almost giddy about their prospects of winning the presidency and increasing their majorities in the House and Senate.

Due to the near-complete collapse of conservative ideas and policies, Democrats have an opening and perhaps even a strong hand to play, but they are underestimating the Republican trump card and Bush's willingness to play it -- national security. In fact, Democrats are woefully unprepared for what is likely to happen between now and next November.

These people have proved their willingness to lie, cheat, manipulate, create fear and even go to war against a country which posed no threat when it served their political purposes. In short, we must assume the worst -- that they will take aggressive action against Iran, most likely an air attack -- before November 2008.

Democrats are not merely unprepared for this, they appear to be traumatized by it. Given a mandate by voters in November 2006 to wind down the Iraq war, they splintered, proved incapable of uniting and failed to use the authority expressly given to them by the Constitution -- the power to withhold funding. In fact, many Democrats are continuing to blame Republicans for the impasse on Iraq, contending that they need a filibuster-proof 60 votes in the Senate to put conditions on funding to stop or wind down the war when, in fact, all they need to stop continued war funding is a simple majority in the House (which they have) and 41 votes in the Senate (which they have). , Dick Cheney's prediction in October 2006 that the November 2006 election results would not matter, as he and Bush would continue to prosecute the war regardless of the election results, has proved to be 100 percent accurate.

Democrats are fragmented and disorganized, blood is in the water and Bush/Cheney are set to exploit this disarray to the Republicans' advantage.

Sometime in March 2008, soon after the Democratic presidential nominee is identified by the presidential primaries, we should expect the Republican drumbeat about Iran to crescendo and the Republicans in Congress to promote an Iran resolution much like the one they foisted on the Democrats in October 2002, shortly before the 2002 midterm elections, where they crushed the Democrats. They will claim the resolution will not specifically authorize war against Iran, that its purpose will be to strengthen Bush's hand in negotiations with Iran, but which will be broad enough in its terms to be used for an attack on Iran by Bush/Cheney. Democrats will whine and moan, but the more conservative Democrats, approximately 75 in the House and 25 in the Senate, fearing accusations of not being "strong on defense," will cringe and crumble and sign on with the Republicans

44.  "Political solution" in Iraq is shorthand for making the claim on territory for the U.S. military bases legal and granting leases for the e