Howard Dean is first these days.

Sitka. LOL.  A girl can dream, can't she?

Repost from last thread because I am passionate about this issue of Democrats becoming so much like Republicans through the years.  I am also very suspicious of the fact that Howard Dean's voice is totally missing from the media now.   Why should any voice in our party be hushed or even decide by themselves to be quiet.   

Democrats should treasure all voices.

 Words of peace and words of war. Lines blur between parties often now.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1506

And a reminder that Governor Howard Dean has quieted his voice, or let others do it for him....when he is a Democrat whose voice counts as much as others.    A lot of us thought this would happen.    If he thinks only Congressional voices should speak, then that means the rest of us don't get to?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1442

"“In the beginning I was pretty outspoken but now others have that role. When you have the Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader you don’t need the chairman of the party being on the talk shows. But early on I was on a lot of those talk shows because I felt I was one of the leading spokesmen for the Democratic Party.

“You know, I am happy…but I am not as visible as I was…because we have the majority in Congress and the House. That is real power. We didn’t have that when I started and now we do. My object is not to make sure I am the center of power. My object is to make sure things get done. I am very satisfied with what is going on in Congress. I am very happy. I think Sen. Reid and Speaker Pelosi are both doing a great job and I wouldn’t say so if I didn’t think so, as you well know."

Wrong, Howard.   They seldom speak out,  and you do have a right.   So don't pull our legs with words like that.  And it is mostly paid consultants with business interests or other concerns on the air.    So I call BS on that statement.

56. seashell :-)

OK, Monica, here's the connection to Bachmann and Schirano and it's a doozy if it's true. I wonder if Biden knows about this *partition."

=================
I think Biden has said that if we don't do something to end the civil war, and to keep the de facto ethnic States united (de jure with Federalism) one of the probable scenarios could be a regional proxy war with Saudis aligning with Sunnis, and Shiites aligning with Iran, but nobody really knows.

This is no big secret. Pundit discuss it all the time

"I am very satisfied with what is going on in Congress. I am very happy. I think Sen. Reid and Speaker Pelosi are both doing a great job and I wouldn’t say so if I didn’t think so, as you well know."

Gosh it hurts to see the "What I want to know!" Dean saying such a thing. I knew there would be times like this when he took the DNC job, but that doesn't make it easier to bear.

hi kids, howard's always 1st!!! even if i'm 5th.

ok, 6th!!!

This is heartening news.

Democrats Attach Subpoena Compliance to AG Debate
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091707R.shtml
Elana Schor reports for The Hill that Democrats plan to take their time in confirming President Bush's choice of Michael Mukasey as the next attorney general. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy said the timeframe for confirmation would depend on the White House's willingness to comply with outstanding subpoenas on its wiretapping program, among other things.
 

sitka, that was back in April he said he approved of what they were doing in congress.   Maybe things have changed..  It is kind of sad, but a lot of us figured it would happen. 

. . . . . . . . . . ♥ . ♥ . ♥ . ♥ .♥ . ♥ . ♥ . ♥. .♥. ♥ .♥ . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ||..||..||..||..||..||..||..||..||..||..||..|| . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~♥ H A P P Y ♥~~~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~♥ B I R T H D A Y ♥~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~♥ I M N 2 P A I N E ♥~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .(_________________________________) . . . . . . . .

my local candidate in the first disrict senate seat of virginia has raised his right wing opponent -----------

$16000 to 21000.

that is amazing. hard work.

let's see them spin this.

This is heartening news.

Yes. We were discussing it earlier today and it's good to hear Leahy will stick to his guns. Without a real AG Bush is at a disadvantage in pursuing his unconstitutional assumptions of power and invasions of privacy anyway. The longer he waits to get one the better.

sitka, that was back in April he said he approved of what they were doing in congress.

Maybe the reason he's so quiet now is he can''t think of anything good to say about them? 

Shopper’s Guide to Toxic-Free Kids

Plastic products, toys, and food packaging are everywhere, and often they can be quite useful.
Unfortunately, many plastic products contain harmful chemicals. We are only beginning to understand
the health threats, especially to developing babies and children. While everyone should be mindful
about their exposure to these chemicals, it is especially critical that parents, grandparents, and others
taking care of young children work to avoid children’s exposure to toxic chemicals....

http://www.environmentcalifornia.org/htm...

5.Sitka

==========
me golden idol is tarnished

me golden idol is tarnished

Hey everybody! FRED is back! (The mean one -- not the treacly one Sheri created for a day or two)

But for everyone else's sake I'm going to start ignoring him again. I hope all the other people he fights with will too.

Just had to stop by to give a bit shout out to Paine -

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MY FRIEND! Hope to see you at a Dean gathering in the future.

Just talked to Thankful - she's been in the kitchen...hmmmmm. You lucky birthday boy. Better bites than bits, I say!

Enjoy your day!

Hi Sitka - waving atcha from the JW Desert Ridge. Seemed to cool down a bit tonight. Going for a float trip down the Salt River tomorrow afternoon. Gobs of sunscreen coming with me, too.

Having dinner afterward at a Mexican place in Cave Creek - El Encanta? Something like that. Hope it's good!

Welcome to PHX, Denise! You got lucky as it's only in the 90's now. The float trip sounds fun and it will hopefully still be cloudy -- I guess getting rained on would be no big deal since you're supposed to get wet on a float trip. Don't forget your jacket (just in case) and lip balm! There's no such thing as bad Mexican food. I'm drooling like Pavlov's dog because I decided to skip dinner tonight and it sounds yummalicious.

16. Sitka

But for everyone else's sake I'm going to start ignoring him again.

==========
Reminds me of the time my mother said "I'm calling you to tell you I won't be calling you."

HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAINE!!!!!!!

Thanks for the jacket reminder, Sitka :) And the welcome!

Just had dinner at Roy's - I can hear your tummy here down the road....

Growl

Happy Birthday, Paine Darlin'

The Lt. Col (?) who's suggesting that bush/cheney be court martialed might be able to do it.   The more I read about Iran, the more I want somebody, anybody, to remove these men from office.

"Yes. We're going to hit Iran, big time. Whatever political discussions that are going on is window dressing and perhaps even a red herring. I see what's going on below deck here in the hangars and weapons bays. And I have a sick feeling about how it's all going to turn out."
– a Landing Signal Officer in an aircraft carrier attack group, in the Gulf of Hormuz, in a telephone call to a friend quoted in an article posted then removed from the internet September 13, 2007

There's every indication that the Bush administration intends to attack Iran before leaving office. The military preparations are in full swing. According to former CIA official Philip Giraldi, writing in the American Conservative in July 2005, "The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney's office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons... As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing-that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack-but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections."

article continues...

So maybe  they need another 9/11 to get the people behind them, saying, of course,  that we've been hit by the Iranians.

 Remove them now!   

Look at all the military exercises going on.  We are Planet War.

RI, Australia to hold joint military exercise in Makassar - Jakarta Post »Chinese warships join military exercise with British aircraft carrier - China Daily »Maiden military exercise in Russia from today - Hindu »China's war (mind) games - La Stampa »Chinese warships arrive in Spain to conduct joint military exercise - People's Daily Online »House urges government to cancel defense pact - Jakarta Post »Military exercise ends with barbecue at beach - Comox Valley Record »INDO-RUSSIAN JOINT AIRBORNE MILITARY EXERCISE AT PSKOV INDRA-07 - Press Information Bureau (press release) »Thailand, India conduct joint military exercise - Mathaba.Net »N. Korea criticizes joint military exercise - 한겨레

link

http://www.total411.info/2007/09/time-to-court-martial-cheney-bush.html 

I think  we need to stay with this.  It's the only hope we have right now to remove these people.

An Open Letter to the New Generation of Military Officers Serving and Protecting Our Nation


By Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., National Commander, The Patriots
Dear Comrades in Arms,


You are facing challenges in 2007 that we of previous generations never dreamed of. I’m just an old fighter pilot (101 combat missions in Vietnam, F-4 Phantom, Phu Cat, 1969-1970) who’s now a disabled veteran with terminal cancer from Agent Orange. Our mailing list (over 22,000) includes veterans from all branches of the service, all political parties, and all parts of the political spectrum. We are Republicans and Democrats, Greens and Libertarians, Constitutionists and Reformers, and a good many Independents. What unites us is our desire for a government that (1) follows the Constitution, (2) honors the truth, and (3) serves the people.


We see our government going down the wrong path, all too often ignoring military advice, and heading us toward great danger. And we look to you who still serve as the best hope for protecting our nation from disaster.


We see the current Iraq War as having been unnecessary, entered into under false pretenses, and horribly mismanaged by the civilian authorities. Thousands of our brave troops have been needlessly sacrificed in a futile attempt at occupation of a hostile land. Many more thousands have suffered wounds which will change their lives forever. Tens of thousands have severe psychological problems because of what they have seen and what they have done. Potentially hundreds of thousands could be poisoned by depleted uranium, with symptoms appearing years later, just as happened to us exposed to Agent Orange. The military services are depleted and demoralized. The VA system is under-funded and overwhelmed. The National Guard and Reserves have been subjected to tour after tour, disrupting lives for even the lucky ones who return intact. Jobs have been lost, marriages have been destroyed, homes have been foreclosed, and children have been estranged. And for what? We have lost allies, made new enemies, and created thousands of new terrorists, further endangering the American people.


But you know all this. I’m sure you also see the enormous danger in a possible attack on Iran, possibly with nuclear weapons. Such an event, seriously contemplated by the Cheney faction of the Bush administration, would make enemies of Russia and China and turn us into the number one rogue nation on earth. The effect on our long-term national security would be devastating.


Some of us had hoped that the new Democratic Congress would end the occupation of Iraq and take firm steps to prevent an attack on Iran, perhaps by impeaching Bush and Cheney. These hopes have been dashed. The lily-livered Democrats have caved in, turning their backs on those few (like Congressman Jack Murtha) who understand the situation. Many of us have personally walked the halls of Congress, to no avail.


This is where you come in.


We know that many of you share our concern and our determination to protect our republic from an arrogant, out-of-control, imperial presidency and a compliant, namby-pamby Congress (both of which are unduly influenced by the oil companies and other big-money interests). We know that you (like us) wouldn’t have pursued a military career unless you were idealistic and devoted to our nation and its people. (None of us do it for the pay and working conditions!) But we also recognize that you may not see how you can influence these events. We in the military have always had a historic subservience to civilian authority.


Perhaps I can help with whatever wisdom I’ve gathered from age (I retired in 1978, so I am ancient indeed).


Our oath of office is to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Might I suggest that this includes a rogue president and vice-president? Certainly we are bound to carry out the legal orders of our superiors. But the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which binds all of us enshrines the Nuremberg Principles which this country established after World War II (which you are too young to remember). One of those Nuremberg Principles says that we in the military have not only the right, but also the DUTY to refuse an illegal order. It was on this basis that we executed Nazi officers who were “only carrying out their orders.”


The Constitution which we are sworn to uphold says that treaties entered into by the United States are the “highest law of the land,” equivalent to the Constitution itself. Accordingly, we in the military are sworn to uphold treaty law, including the United Nations charter and the Geneva Convention.


Based on the above, I contend that should some civilian order you to initiate a nuclear attack on Iran (for example), you are duty-bound to refuse that order. I might also suggest that you should consider whether the circumstances demand that you arrest whoever gave the order as a war criminal.


I know for a fact that in recent history (once under Nixon and once under Reagan), the military nuclear chain of command in the White House discussed these things and were prepared to refuse an order to “nuke Russia.” In effect they took the (non-existent) “button” out of the hands of the President.. We were thus never quite as close to World War III as many feared, no matter how irrational any president might have become. They determined that the proper response to any such order was, “Why, sir?” Unless there was (in their words) a “damn good answer,” nothing was going to happen.


I suggest that if you in this generation have not had such a discussion, perhaps it is time you do. In hindsight, it’s too bad such a discussion did not take place prior to the preemptive “shock and awe” attack on Baghdad. Many of us at the time spoke out vehemently that such an attack would be an impeachable offense, a war crime against the people of Iraq, and treason against the United States of America. But our voices were drowned out and never reached the ears of the generals in 2003. I now regret that I never sent a letter such as this at that time, but depended on the corporate media to carry my message. I must not make that mistake again.


Also in hindsight, President Bush could be court-martialed for abuse of power as Commander-in-Chief. Vice President Cheney could probably be court-martialed for his performance as Acting Commander-in-Chief in the White House bunker the morning of September 11, 2001.


We in the U.S. military would never consider a military coup, removing an elected president and installing one of our own. But following our oath of office, obeying the Nuremberg Principles, and preventing a rogue president from committing a war crime is not a military coup. If it requires the detention of executive branch officials, we will not impose a military dictatorship. We will let the Constitutional succession take place. This is what we are sworn to. This is protecting the Constitution, our highest obligation. In 2007, this is what is meant by “Duty, Honor, Country.”


Thank you all for your service to this nation. May God bless America, and sustain us in this difficult time. And thanks for listening to the musings of an old junior officer.


Respectfully,




Robert M. Bowman, PhD, Lt. Col., USAF, ret.

1494 Patriot Dr, Melbourne, FL 32940

http://revereradio.net/e107/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?3648

That was too long, wasn't it?  In my zeal to have these men removed, "the devil made me do it." 

 Nite nite all.  :-)

Musharraf to 'give up army post'

Pervez Musharraf

There has been pressure on Gen Musharraf to resign his army post

The chief lawyer for Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf says that if he is re-elected, he will give up his post of army chief soon afterwards.

In a statement to the Supreme Court, the lawyer said that if Gen Musharraf won the election, he would be sworn in for a new term as a civilian.

He is seeking re-election by parliament before its term expires in mid-October.

On Monday, the Supreme Court began debating his right to remain army chief if he stood for president again.

"If elected for a second term as president, General Pervez Musharraf shall relinquish charge of office of chief of army staff soon after election and before taking oath of office as president," his chief lawyer, Sharifuddin Pirzada, told the court.

The country's largest political party, Benazir Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party, has been holding negotiations about a possible power-sharing deal in which they have demanded that Gen Musharraf step down from his military role.

Petitions

There had been growing opposition to the fact that Gen Musharraf is constitutionally allowed to be both president and head of the army at the same time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7000120.stm

Good morning, everybody

If you liked that sea, you might also enjoy looking up some of his associates and see if they've also landed in lowly positions as Congressional staff.  While the web site calls him an advisor, he's got a position as an assistant in her office and, as has been frequently pointed out, those people, being paid for by the people, are supposed to be working for us, not pushing some ideological agenda.  

And then, of course, there's the fact that one of the, the one that got me started on this little side-trip, Alexis Y. Debat, is a demonstrated fraud--demonstrated in the sense that the educational degrees he claimed in order to get his job as a consultant on terrorism for ABC are non-existent.

Hulsman, with whom Debat wrote one published article, claims a degree from a University in Scotland, even though he seems to be Dutch and has now landed at a foreign policy think tank in Berlin.  But, if there's one fraud in the bunch, there may be more.  Wonder how many of these terrorism experts can speak any of the relevant languages.

The arguments about al Qaeda have a lot of the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" aspect about them.

John C. Hulsman
Wiliam L.T. Schirano
Ariel Cohen
Doug Bandow
James Phillips
Christopher C. Harmon
Stephen Johnson,
James J. Carafano

Iowa now has six candidates with paid staff canvasing the state, so that means likely caucus goers face a minimum of 18 calls.

throw a dart and pick a candidate and become someones #1 just so you end the barrage?

it happened last time and the closer you get to January the less reliable the lists

I went to the local meeting and all six of our county's troop was there, and I am still impressed with how politics finds all of these young idealists. What a great bunch. We went out for a beer afterwards and it was good to see they all get along.

Since Obama,Edwards, and Clinton all have very similar heath care proposals they should take a cue from their staffs and put out a unified Democratic plan.

Thursday's Health Care Debate in Davenport will be interesting.

My Congressman's staffer for rural constituent service just got hired away by the Governor. I'm thankful he didn't end up in Washington because the guy is real bright and highly practicle at the same time and I always appreciate that combo and I'll still be able to work with him in his new position

another Republican leader of the State Senate cited "family reasons" and is leaving politics

no fun being in the minority and for once it's them

yyyyyyyeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Happy Birthday paine.

sorry for the philibuster last night but I jsut thought sharing Obama's actual words on Wall Street made as much sense as a re-hash of the same argument for the eleventh time

That is why God created scrolling I suppose, sorry.

bbl

Will somebody please tell Obama to shut up?

+++

Sitka -

Real democratic of you to tell someone to shut up.

Are you intending to tell the rest of the candidates running to shut up too ?

And all their supporters ?

"strengthened my resolve to serve my country"  ~Senator Hillary Clinton

The Party of hate and bigotry = ?  ...the Republican.

Speaking of shut up -- 

-- here's a response I posted on a CNN blog when the first poster, responding to an interview article about Michelle Obama, there told Michelle Obama to shut up:

"Michelle, shut up, it's not Obama's turn either… we need a Senior Leader in the "White House" not a Jr. Senator.

Posted By Atlanta, Georgia : September 14, 2007 12:25 pm"

+++

Excuse me ? Who are you in Atlanta, GA ? You didn't even have the courage to post your first name.

I'm a guy and I would never tell anyone to "shut up", especially a woman.

Have some manners please.

BTW, Happy B'day to you Imn2Paine !

Oh geez,

thank you Phil, seashell, Annilow, Denise, and Puddleriver.

Mmm, I think I'm gonna eat some cake today. 

Thanks *r, buddy.

Sen Clinton's makin' the rounds and I am not sure who is spit on more - the Clintons or OJ Simpson?

Give me the health care policy our congresscritters have for themselves.

OJ has been convicted again.

The media sucks for how much time they spend on OJ.

The media sucks.

http://debates.news.yahoo.com/

Did you folks do the online debate mashup yet? it's kinda fun.

+++

Annilow -

Thanks for the link.

~*~*~*HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Paine!~*~*~

a quote for the day...

Thanks, Jo.

“There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness.” Friedrich Nietzsche quotes 

 But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing.
Thomas Paine

*rdorgan

I think the request to Obama wasn't really directed at him, but rather at the posting of his entire speech.  The fellow does like to talk, though, and I have to agree that the structure of his speeches with their long recitation of distress and disappointment becomes tedious.  I don't think that the assumption that "the people like to hear someone say what they've been thinking" has much merit.  It does work with an audience whose antagonism needs to be pumped up, but that's not what Democrats are about.  

It's my sense that there's a certain amount of "lamentation and despair" that goes on in both the black and jewish community, but I fear that coming from Obama it won't be perceived as real.

To a certain extent, invocations of the promised land are welcome by oppressors because it means that their here and now isn't being threatened.  The advantage of promising a reward in heaven is that nothing has to be delivered here on earth.  If people's suffering is a ticket to heaven, then it doesn't have to be relieved, does it?

I'm not sure to what extent Obama's organizing stint differed from what the operatives he's hiring now are experiencing.  I've seen no mention of how long it even lasted. 

"Irrationally" held truths are the only ones there are, perhaps?

even more harmful might be a set of "rational" beliefs where the original premise was wrong?

Happy Birthday Paine........as my gift to you, Im flying Fred to your house tonite to spend 8 hours discussing Biden/Gelb............enjoy!

Sitka was talking about me rdorgan, not Obama.

I was using Obama's speech to Wall Street yesterday to philibuster the direction discussion was headed at the time.

Ignore button HQ's?

*rdorgan

I think the request to Obama wasn't really directed at him, but rather at the posting of his entire speech.

...

+++

I know that, I read through last night's blogs' comments just like I read through all the previous entries, since most of the time I'm not here.

Phil was posting the speech, the entire speech.

But the effect of what Sitka did, was to say shut up, that he didn't want to see anymore of that economic speech Obama gave get posted. 

BTW, unlike you, I don't find Obama's speeches to be tedious, just like I don't find Dodd's to be tedious, nor anybody else's speeches who's running for prez this election cycle.

52.

Phil -

Yep, got it and knew that when I posted comment 37 upthread.  Please refer to comment 53.

Edwards and Clinton have nearly identical health care proposals. It makes no sense for Edwards to attack Hillary's plan. He is shooting himself in the foot. He should be praising her for coming on board with a truly universal plan.  

Edwards and Clinton have nearly identical health care proposals. It makes no sense for Edwards to attack Hillary's plan. He is shooting himself in the foot. He should be praising her for coming on board with a truly universal plan.  

55.

IMO, Edwards demeanor changed (going more negative) since this past April.

What happened last April to the Edwards campaign ?

They hired Joe Trippi onto their campaign.