Whos on first?

Deans are on first!

IN NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA

THE FEDERAL STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD SUBSIDIZE, SUPPORT, AND IMPLEMENT  A PROGRAM OF ELEVATED CONCRETE PLATFORMS ABOVE THE FLOOD LINE THAT WOULD SERVE AS FOUNDATIONS FOR NEW HOMES

Could you speak up? We're hard of hearing.

Could you speak up? We're hard of hearing.

Sure, no problemo.  How's this?

BIDEN:

 ".....Some of my other democratic colleagues, including Senators Obama and Dodd and Governor Richardson, seem to be coming around to that reality. Each has spoken in positive terms about my plan to end the war in Iraq by separating the warring factions and helping Iraqis build a decentralized, federal system that gives its major groups control over the fabric of their daily lives, as we did in Bosnia. But they say they are reluctant to “impose” a political settlement on the Iraqis. In fact, my plan “imposes” nothing on the Iraqis; rather, it would implement what is already in their constitution and laws. The Iraqi constitution establishes a decentralized, federal system in Iraq, with extensive powers for the regions and limited powers for the central government. The Iraqi parliament passed legislation, which takes effect early next year, to implement those provisions of the constitution. If my opponents would read the constitution and Iraq’s laws, their concern about fully backing my plan would vanish. I call on them to do so, and to support the Biden-Boxer-Brownback legislation, which would force the Bush Administration to change policy and support the Iraqi Constitution."

http://blog.thehill.com/2007/08/23/like-bush-some-of-my-democratic-colleagues-cling-to-flawed-premise-sen-joe-biden/

READ THE PLAN

http://planforiraq.com/download

http://planforiraq.com/documents/pfi.pdf

Phil Specht
Thu, 08/30/07
1:05 pm

Phil, the move by the Florida politicians and leadership is a move to secure Hillary's nomination.  This became a serious issue as it is becoming more serious in Iowa and New Hampshire.  If Anyone other than HRC were to win either of these states it could seriously hurt Clinton.  But to have a state like Florida, which will be won by Clinton in a runaway as all of the influential members of the Party are Clintonistas, be in a position to put her back in front and basically secure the nomination before it goes any further.

But all of this would be a non-issue if two things were to happen.  First, that voters were actually able to think for themselves and stop acting like lemmings after the first contests.  Second, that the Party leaders at the local level actually stop feeding this mentality and truly encouraged the primary voters to carefully consider the candidates before making their decision. I am almost willing to bet by the time the race reaches states after the second week, most voters probably couldn't name most of the candidates.

When did this mentatlity shift?  Why is there such a desperation to have a nominee?

The Florida Democratic Party is screwed up, period.  It is run by sycophants who care little about the membership and mostly about themselves.  The Chair of the Party is a complete failure.  The County leadership are ruthless bastards who will destroy any who oppose them (even as a number of them are busy being indicted).  I left the Party after 2004 and was going to go back for this primary season but I think I'll just sit it out.  My candidate, Dodd, will probably not even make to the primary/beauty pageant.  Speaking of pageants, I'm willing to bet that the leaders of the FDP, starting with BIll Nelson, are among those individuals that can't identify the United States on a map.

Speaking of infomercials.

All this useless squabbling about which state is to be first could be resolved quite easily by setting a date and letting states decide when to have their primaries/caucuses after it. The current mess is a direct result of the old system of manipulation  falling apart.

Several here have posted their own new systems, but they're complicated and just invite different forms of abuse. Keep it simple, keep it fair.

But all of this would be a non-issue if two things were to happen.  First, that voters were actually able to think for themselves and stop acting like lemmings after the first contests.  Second, that the Party leaders at the local level actually stop feeding this mentality and truly encouraged the primary voters to carefully consider the candidates before making their decision.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

couldn't agree more

Speaking of infomercials

=================

At least you are learning something - and what you can be FOR instead of what to be AGAINST

What's the one thing I like about Hillary? There aren't constantly people on this blog trying to sell her to me as there are the others.

what you can be FOR instead of what to be AGAINST

I'm for a lot. I just don't see much of it in Biden and the other NeoDems.

And it's actually counterproductive to feel you have to be FOR something or someone even if it stinks. 

Paz Peace
Thu, 08/30/07
1:35 pm

========

I know a lot of votes in recent years comes from snowbirds and retirees from the Northeast.  Is the Democratic Party traditionally influenced  in Florida from the days of the old South or does this migration of Northerners dominate the Party these days?

all I ask of a voter in my alternative system is that you request a primary ballot and vote it

all I ask of a voter in my alternative system is that you request a primary ballot and vote it

What gives you the right to ask -- or demand --  anything?

NeoDems?

Being so cynically critical about elder Democratic Statespeople,

  who have survived the Reagan  Revolution and Neocon  Coup, with very respectable liberal voting records (despite the anomalies of 9/11,)

makes you the Neo Dem 

Neo Dem = New Democrat

That's what they call themselves. But they're really Rockefellar Republicans who can't get a job in the GOP these days. 

I'm probably making a mistake in sharing the inner workings of how an all absentee system would work under party rules to fairly give every voter the same representation which in theory is provided by the current system which allocates delegates according to number of Democratic votes in the past election so that the nominating convention in theory gives every party member the exact same say in who the nominee will be.

so for the Sitka's out there

my proposal is a voter requests a ballot, by mail, on line, in person, or by phone, and after the registration is checked for party affliation a ballot is sent with an affidavid envelope (a voter registration card can accompany the request)

the return envelope is to the Congressional Central Committee of 435 Districts who count the votes

for a voter three steps ... request the ballot, vote in the comfort of your home, return the ballot

What gives you the right to ask -- or demand --  anything?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There cannot be a nominee of a Party, without a nomination process.

That process is determined by rules committees. no rules no party no nominee no name on the ballot

18.

Deaniac in GA
Thu, 08/30/07
12:08 pm

Sorry, the release I received didn't have a link.

my proposal is a voter requests a ballot, by mail, on line, in person, or by phone, and after the registration is checked for party affliation a ballot is sent with an affidavid envelope (a voter registration card can accompany the request)

I'm registered Independent and in my state, AZ, I can choose which party's primary to vote in. I like that and think the best candidate will be chosen by inviting as many as possible to participate in a party's primary rather than restricting access to insiders. And since my tax dollars pay for the primaries I should get to participate as I choose. 

Getting rid of the "systems" and let the people participate as easily as possible and know their votes mean something is  one way of getting better government. 

Neo Dem = New Democrat

That's what they call themselves. But they're really Rockefellar Republicans who can't get a job in the GOP these days. 

============

Jesus was crucified for better jokes than that

I'm convinced that the rules for allocating delegates for the nominating convention give equal say to all democratic voters equally right now as they stand today, in theory. That current rules follow the party constitution and by-laws.

17.

I never heard Biden call himself that - Sitka provide a link or I am compelled to call you one of the worst gossip mongers  on this blog.

<>There cannot be a nominee of a Party, without a nomination process. That process is determined by rules committees. no rules no party no nominee no name on the ballot

The fewer rules the better as they're most often used by corrupt insiders to manipulate voters and the process.

let the people participate as easily as possible

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Request a ballot

2. Vote

3. Return the ballot

requesting a patry's primary ballot makes one a member of that party, sorry, but there is no such thing as an independent that casts a primary vote

you can honestly be a member, or momentarily pretend to be one, search your own heart on that one

the Party Party's primary ballot:

o : more taste

o : less filling

, I can choose which party's primary to vote in. I like that ....Getting rid of the "systems" and let the people participate as easily as possible and know their votes mean something is  one way of getting better government.

=============

It also leaves the system open for manipulation.  You need rules (i.e. Republicans that vote in a Dem primary should be restricted from  voting in the Repub primary) Do you have rules?

On March 15, 2005 Senator Joseph Biden (D - Del.) received the Democratic Leadership Council's Harry S. Truman Award.

If Biden isn't a NeoDem -- or want to be considered one -- he should be more careful of the company he keeps. 

It also leaves the system open for manipulation.  You need rules (i.e. Republicans that vote in a Dem primary should be restricted from  voting in the Repub primary) Do you have rules?

Repos and Dems can only vote in their own primaries. Indys can choose which.

It would suit me fine to let everybody vote in each party's primary since taxpayers foot the bill. 

requesting a patry's primary ballot makes one a member of that party, sorry, but there is no such thing as an independent that casts a primary vote

That's just empty rhetoric. 

1. Request a ballot

2. Vote

3. Return the ballot

That's what we already do. But I get the idea you want to restrict it to party members and make it more difficult.. 

That's what we already do. But I get the idea you want to restrict it to party members and make it more difficult.. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't believe AZ lets people vote in both Republican and Democratic primaries. You have to chose a party don't you?

I can't believe AZ lets people vote in both Republican and Democratic primaries. You have to chose a party don't you?

Repos and Dems can only vote in their own primaries. Indys can choose which (but not both).

It would suit me fine to let everybody vote in each party's primary since taxpayers foot the bill.

I tried a "wide stance" in the privacy of my own bathroom. It's pretty uncomfortable, and not conducive to the purpose of sitting there!

It was very bizarre to see Pat Buchanan say yesterday that Craig did nothing wrong in looking for sex in a public restroom. Made me wonder if Pat was trying innoculate himself for when's he caught doing it.

LARRY CRAIG ON THE SEAT

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp08302007.html

The Jeff Gannon Affair drew our attention to the fact that a male prostitute can sleep over at the White House on multiple occasions. The Mark Foley Affair alerted us to the phenomenon of conservative Republican lawmakers' passion for teenage pageboys. The Ted Haggard Scandal showed us that conservative Republican preachers who sermonize against gay rights can smolder with lust for man-to-man action. The arrest of Republican Florida State Rep. Bob Allen at a park in Central Florida, showed us that the coauthor of a recent public lewdness bill can lewdly solicit sex from an undercover male cop. And now, the Larry Craig Scandal draws our attention to the phenomenon of conservative Republican lawmakers firmly opposed to gay rights getting off on impersonal anonymous homo-sex in men's room toilet stalls.

It looks like two more conservative "family values" Republican senators may be "outed" soon, by Mike Rogers, the same blogger who originally fingered Craig. The gay activist claims that South Carolina Sen. Lindsay Graham is gay. More interestingly, he claims that, "Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's quick expulsion from the Army---for fondling a private's privates---is finally being discussed in Kentucky." He notes that McConnell, discharged after just 10 days in the Army in 1967, "has consistently prevented anyone from seeing his military discharge papers" but a Freedom of Information suit may bring them to light.

since taxpayers foot the bill.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Iowa the two Party costs are paid for by each Party on caucus night and taxpayers don't foot the bill

sticking the taxpayers for deciding local candidates is fair, but I don't know how the Presidential nomination process should work, although I can see how them tagging along on an already scheduled primary saves costs for the party

I guess the speech from Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) wasn’t persuasive; the long knives are out.

Idaho Sen. Larry Craig’s political support eroded significantly Wednesday when three fellow Republicans in Congress called for his resignation and party leaders pushed him from senior committee posts in the Senate.

Hoekstra was the first to make the call, issuing a statement two hours ago that said Craig’s “conduct throughout this matter has been inappropriate for a U.S. senator.” Then Coleman said in a written statement, “Senator Craig pled guilty to a crime involving conduct unbecoming a senator.” Not satisfied with a press release, McCain went on CNN to announce his belief that Craig “should resign” and explain why.

And what about Craig? What’s he said today? Not too much, but a) legal experts seem to believe he’s going to have a very tough time reversing his guilty plea; and b) he’s already losing his grip on power in the Senate.

It looks like Craig may soon have to decide to spend more time with his family.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

It looks like two more conservative "family values" Republican senators may be "outed" soon

If only they had stuck with good old "family values" female prostitutes -- as Larry Vittner (R-LA) did -- they would be applauded by their caucus -- as Vittner was when he was outed.

I've seen way too many tracking polls and how they jump back and forth in 24 hours to like the idea of a national same day stampede (primary) for every name on every ballot in the country, but if there were April sometime would make the most sense. Too bad the Idaho election isn't next week though.

bbl

paz peace, my kind of Floridian.    A big smilie to you.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Thurman the lobbyist and Nelson the Dino...what a pair.  Both so cozy with the Republicans.

I want a change in primaries, but I want honesty also.

“All the ills of democracy can be cured by more democracy.” — Alfred E. Smith.

Don't if it's true, but it should always be tried. 

If all the voters stay cool and informed and vote for the person who best represents them when the time comes, the Denver Convention will nominate a winning candidate who reflects the values of the party.

I've seen way too many tracking polls and how they jump back and forth in 24 hours to like the idea of a national same day stampede (primary) for every name on every ballot in the country

Polls will fluctuate over days or months. So that shouldn't be a consideration.

As for stampedes, That's what happens under the current corrupt system where the early winner(s) in small states are dubbed to be the only ones worthy of continued support.

Every other kind of election is held on one day. Why not primaries too --  except for the age old assumption that the people can't be trusted to choose their leaders without a manipulative system to correct their mistakes.

ANGER AT CONGRESSIONAL DEMS

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/29/AR2007082902355.html?hpid=topnews

A growing clamor among rank-and-file Democrats to halt President Bush's most controversial tactics in the fight against terrorism has exposed deep divisions within the party, with many Democrats angry that they cannot defeat even a weakened president on issues that they believe should be front and center.

The Democrats' failure to rein in wiretapping without warrants, close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay or restore basic legal rights such as habeas corpus for terrorism suspects has opened the party's leaders to fierce criticism from some of their staunchest allies -- on Capitol Hill, among liberal bloggers and at interest groups.

At the Democratic-leaning Center for American Progress yesterday, panelists discussing the balance between security and freedom lashed out at Democratic leaders for not standing up to the White House. "These are matters of principle," said Mark Agrast, a senior fellow at the center. "You don't temporize."

The American Civil Liberties Union is running Internet advertisements depicting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) as sheep.

"Bush wanted more power to eavesdrop on ordinary Americans, and we just followed along. I guess that's why they call us the Democratic leadersheep," say the two farm animals in the ad, referring to Congress's passage of legislation granting Bush a six-month extension and expansion of his warrantless wiretapping program.

On March 15, 2005 Senator Joseph Biden (D - Del.) received the Democratic Leadership Council's Harry S. Truman Award.

If Biden isn't a NeoDem -- or want to be considered one -- he should be more careful of the company he keeps

===================================================

Not sure of how an award makes a person bad.  Maybe you read this part of his speech:

Senator Biden's Remarks to the DLC -  March 15, 2005
By Senator Joseph Biden (As Prepared for Delivery)

A Terrible Beauty Has Been Born (title of speech)

Nearly a hundred years ago the great Irish poet William Butler Yeats, writing of his Ireland said: "The world has changed, it has changed utterly. A terrible beauty has been born."

I believe an enlightened American foreign policy and a little luck and a lot of perseverance can help ensure that beauty is in fact born.

The Benefits of Democratization

In January, in his second inaugural address, President Bush spoke with great eloquence about expanding freedom.

I was a little frustrated by some of my Democratic colleagues and some of our friends around the world....

Clearly the President's speech struck a chord with the American people.

The benefits of freedom and the desire to share them with others go to the essence of who we are as a people, how we see ourselves, and our own national experience.

I think the President was also right to link expanding democracy to our own self--interest. Liberal democracies tend not to attack one another. They tend not to abuse their own people. They tend not to produce terrorists.

But of course, in  your googling, Sitka, you conveniently left out this part of Biden's speech, (scrolling down):

With all the promise out there, we also have to inject a little realism.

The last significant opportunity history delivered to President Bush -- an opportunity to unite the nation and the world -- I believe, was squandered.

and this:

And let's remember, it was President Bush who was the late convert to the cause of expanding freedom. He arrived in Washington mocking the very idea of promoting democracy and nation--building. Just as many conservatives berated President Clinton for acting in the Balkans.

and this:

As it now stands, there is a significant gap between the President's rhetoric and his policies. This dichotomy risks undermining the credibility we're trying to restore with modernizers throughout the Middle East.

and this:

Our experience in Iraq demonstrates the unintended consequence of imposing democracy from outside by force without a clear plan for the day, the year, the decade after.

and this:

I believe the most effective, sustainable way to advocate democracy is to work from the inside with those moderates and modernizers to build democratic institutions.

By that I mean political parties, an independent judiciary, an independent media, a modern education system, the civil society and non--governmental organizations, a private sector.

Elections, in the absence of these institutions, favor the most organized groups in those societies, which also tend to be the most radical.

To put it another way -- freedom and liberal democracy are not synonymous. The former without the latter is a recipe for chaos and for return to autocratic rule.

I'm not sure the Bush administration gets the distinction. And if it does, I know it's not acting on it yet

==============================

AND LIKE ALL THE INFOMERCIALS SAY - "BUT WAIT - THERE'S MORE"

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=106&subid=122&contentid=253239

Sitka - you should learn from the Master - not the Master Baiter

If all the voters stay cool and informed and vote for the person who best represents them when the time comes, the Denver Convention will nominate a winning candidate who reflects the values of the party.

But ...... I want to support the "electable" one. Are you saying that trusting my own conscience over punditry will make that happen? What a novel concept!

Yuck. That's just gross. I told FRED he should skip the one liners since he has no talent for them.

And in spite of FRED's overlong cut&paste (which none will read), it still stands that Biden is a NeoDem. 

The Democrats' failure to rein in wiretapping without warrants, close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay or restore basic legal rights such as habeas corpus for terrorism suspects has opened the party's leaders to fierce criticism from some of their staunchest allies -- on Capitol Hill, among liberal bloggers and at interest groups.

DCDem leaders need to understand that with so many Republi-Dems in their ranks, they are still effectively a minority party and should focus on blocking further wrongs than accepting the premis that they must do things even when it means Bush and the GOP get what they want.

47.

Huron John
Thu, 08/30/07
3:00 pm

...many Democrats angry that they cannot defeat even a weakened president...
---------------

???
Very little basis to get angry, imo, one can't defeat its own inalienable part.., lol.

Repos and Dems can only vote in their own primaries. Indys can choose which.

=========================================

Sounds OK to me, but you do have rules, and now you contradict yourself as  the quotes below indicate

=========================================

Phil said: requesting a patry's primary ballot makes one a member of that party, sorry, but there is no such thing as an independent that casts a primary vote

That's just empty rhetoric.

25. The fewer rules the better as they're most often used by corrupt insiders to manipulate voters and the process. 

FRED suffers from a serious disconnect of logic.

"Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor."

author unknown

Sitka says:

And in spite of FRED's overlong cut&paste (which none will read), it still stands that Biden is a NeoDem.

=========

Just because Chairman Sitka says so - egomania - the occupational hazard of rock musicians

6.

I agree with everything in Paz's- post except, weellll -- the party powers-that-be in good ol' hot Florida just might be able to find us on a map -- if they had one -- which they probably don't.

"Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor."

author unknown

I wouldn't want people to know I'd said that either. But better to be oppressed by oneself than another. 

The current Iraqi bloodletting is pretty tame compared to The Republic after the storming of the Bastille, for sure fewer beheadings.

France turned out OK. Give them their space.

Just because Chairman Sitka says so

FRED demanded a link to Biden's connection to NeoDems and I gave it to him. Like I said -- serious disconnect in logic.