Free thinkers are always first.........regardless of party affiliations............................

"In every revolution, there is one man with a vision"......James Kirk 1967

Dean is first.  That's what I'm talking about.

Mike's first is first.  That is breathtaking speed.

Out of curiosity or whatever, I wonder why John and Mike are not just behind the Kucinich campaign.  What’s the difference?  Are you drawing some substantive distinction between Kucinich’s policy agenda and a third party platform like the Green’s?

I think that Dennis would be a superb president. He would get us out of Iraq, then cut the Military-Industrial Complex down to a much smaller and manageable size.

To say nothing of a single-payer health care system.

Dennis' agenda is not substantially different from that of the Greens.

I've already donated to Dennis' campaign, which is more than I've done for the Democratic Party, or any of the Corporate-Democrat front runners.

If he shows any traction in the polls, the Corporate wing of the party will slime him, so I'm not overly optimistic.

Heck, you ALL are first.   But then I'm first at kissing-up.

http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3332/9116/SOURCE=RSS

BY NICHOLAS DESHAIS | ndeshais at wweek dot com

[June 20th, 2007] Arianna Huffington used to be her own enemy.

That is, she used to be a Republican. Now, she floats progressive ideas on her 2-year-old news and opinion blog, huffingtonpost.com, making herself a pariah among conservatives as she tries to sink policies and politicians she opposes.

And her Greek accent also has become familiar to political junkies, thanks to such high-profile gigs as commenting on recent presidential candidate debates, as well as from Seven Days in America, her radio show on Air America.

Last Friday, she was on a panel at the Association of Alternative Newsweeklies' annual convention in Portland about covering politics. In between calls on her BlackBerry, the 56-year-old Huffington gave an earful to WW afterward about everything from bloggers and journalists to Al Gore and the Iraq war.

WW : You used to be a Republican and now you affiliate yourself with Democrats. How important is party loyalty to you?

Arianna Huffington: I do affiliate myself with Democrats, but I also criticize them. I'm not partisan in that sense, because what I'm about is ideas and what I believe in. I don't have to support a candidate just because they have a D after their name. I do believe this country would have been infinitely better if we had Al Gore as president or John Kerry as president. But I criticized Gore when he was running and I criticized Kerry. I don't believe in blind loyalty. I'm not a party operative.

Who in this field of presidential candidates could make a difference?

I've been very impressed with the way [Illinois Democratic Sen.] Barack Obama has related with audiences. There's a kind of situational quality, an authenticity that is very much needed. It's a long way between now and when the nominating process is complete. But certainly what the country is hungry for is authenticity.

...

bbl

Time to put the latest Obama hype in perspective--from Glen Ford'd article in Black Agenda Report,

Barack Obama is the antithesis of Black Power, a man who promises with every word he speaks, with every nuance of phrase and body language, and through his voting record as a U.S. Senator, that he personifies the definitive end of black organized struggle in the United States--a unilateral surrender to white racism. This is his appeal to the white masses: that they will no longer be challenged to confront history, or to relinquish privilege in the present.

Obama has already cashed in on his "Race, but not really, Card"--to the tune of $25 million dollars in contributions in the first three months of this year, three-quarters of it from corporations. This does not happen by accident. Since setting foot in the U.S. Senate, Obama has directed his entire message machine to the task of convincing corporate America that he is a friend who can be counted on to leave the actual Power Game in their hands. One of his first votes was to transfer most class action suits to federal courts, where multi-billion-dollar companies found guilty of race, gender or general employee abuse are fined the equivalent of the millionaire CEO's latest weekend at the casinos in Monaco.

He stood down while only California Senator Barbara Boxer stood up to challenge the theft of black voting rights in the 2004 election. He coddled American Manifest Destiny queen Condoleezza Rice and Bush Supreme Court nominees, while doing nothing--absolutely nothing--to materially aid Katrina victims. He has stuck like Crazy Glue to positions on the Iraq war and health care that are practically indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton's--and in no way threaten the military-industrial complex or health care-insurance industries.

Obama is a company man. He knows the language, the subtle and overt signals, and emits them like a beacon. Ruling circles have gotten the message, and that is why corporate media have made him a contender, and corporate billfolds have financed him.

In his journey to personal identity--dishonestly but expertly packaged for white and corporate audiences in his two books--Obama learned a salient and elemental fact of black life: we want recognition by the nation as a whole, and some connection to the national narrative

Mike wrote "I have always respected DK, although what he and JE did to HD disappointed me a lot. Personally, the American voting electorate wont go for a short person.......a Dept. of Peace is great but unapplicable today sadly."

John wrote: "I think that Dennis would be a superb president. He would get us out of Iraq, then cut the Military-Industrial Complex down to a much smaller and manageable size.  To say nothing of a single-payer health care system. Dennis' agenda is not substantially different from that of the Greens."

So, from what I understand, both of you like Kucinich, a Democrat who is running, although he might be short or have other flaws, and you think he may not have a good shot, but you prefer slagging Democrats and boosting an anonymous candidate for a third party or parties whose agenda hardly differs from Kucinich’s and whose candidate would presumably be more of a dark horse than Kucinich, but who, unlike Kucinich, would help jeopardize the chances of a Democratic nominee against the Republican.

Thanks for your voice of reason on the Obama front, John.  I am dissappointed in Arrianna supporting him.  I thought she was able to see through the window dressing.  Or does she do that later in the article and someone didn't bother to put that part up? 

I really get tired of all the hype by EVERYONE about Obama. Empty words that don't say anything if you truly listen.

What do we owe to the Democratic Party?

Look, I've been a Democratic County Chairman and member of the State Committee, but my support of the party depends on what they provide me, I don't owe anything to them. Loyalty is earned, and right now, although some individuals who are Democrats have something in the bank with me, the party as a whole does not.

So, my support in 2008 depends on who is nominated and what they say, and whether I believe it, just as it did in 2004 and 2000.

That could be the Democrat, that could be a Green (although it would take a very strong candidate), that could be an independent/third party.  All it takes to be electable is to get more votes than the other guy...okay, more Electoral votes.  And as I've posted before, I see as many as three independents making runs in 2008.

But please, nobody tell me not to support the candidate of my choice because it would hurt the Democrats. 

Russ, there's still time. 

Public Funding of US Senate campaigns is being discussed today by the Senate Rules committee.  There's a thread over on Kos with the details.

Tom Bearse
Wed, 06/20/07
10:04 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually Tom, Im glad I left the Democrapic party because people like you have infested it to the point where people like me would much rather go Green or not go at all as again, I shall not simply step in line for the lesser of 2 evils anymore........but keep taunting, it reminds me how your party has really sunk in the last few years........................you do it no service as many Independents read this blog..hell for all we know you are  a republican plant...........thats what you sound like you know.

Fred brought up an interesting point about the Germans the other day....he failed to recognize the fact that they all simply got in line as well to support a terrible leader..................

9.

Soooooo, short people have no reason to live?

Now that's pretty inclusive.

* rdorgan
Wed, 06/20/07
9:25 am
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Again? Side note: I watched a bit of the NBA finals and broke my rule of boycoting them since 1994 because you persistentlly adveretised how great this Lebran James was...............they lose 0-4............unimpressive...............sorry.

13.

i'm with you Mike. Even tho i'm with the run Al crowd here, and they are planning to do things, and 'be there' to show potential volunteer support - i'm earnestly urging them not to be shackled to the Dem ticket or to encourage Al in that direction.

Call me completely ignorant... and short. LOL

Barb wrote "Thanks for your voice of reason on the Obama front, John. I am disappointed in Arianna supporting him."

I wrote in the past about what left wing critics like Joshua Frank, Keith Rosenthal, Anthony Gancarski, and self-styled progressive legislators in Vermont, had to say about Gov. Howard Dean, including their scathing indictment of what they regarded as the conservative tenor of his administration policies. They thought of him as an anti-war fraud, they derided the control exerted by corporate interests, and trashed his policies on taxation, women’s rights, civil rights, gay rights, education, and the environment. Rosenthal, a Vermont resident, said he governed Vermont "strictly within the framework of the conservative Democratic Leadership Council." Sherry Wolf wrote in Counterpunch that Dean gay-bashed Ralph Nader. I mean, depending on your sources, Dean is practically Mussolini from the perspective of doctrinaire liberals.

I don’t know that there’s any agreement with these sentiments here, although even BFA bloggers don’t spare their criticism of Dean. My point in all this is that from certain perspectives, mainly from the view of ideological purists, Obama’s voting record subjects him to charges of being an anti-war fraud, a corporate shill (or "corporatist liar" if you prefer), an environmental chameleon, and some other unflattering allegations. Of course political office holders compromise and make accommodations with colleagues and interest groups with whom they may disagree. Dean would be the first to acknowledge this.

However, none of the left wing attacks against Gov. Dean convinced me that I should support anyone else but him in 2004, nor diminished my view of him as a candidate. The reason is because I believed in his vision, his guiding principles, and his commitment to a liberal agenda, even if I differed with his votes or policies on discrete issues. This is bound to be the case with any candidate. As we have seen, Gov. Richardson has criticized Edwards and Feingold for supporting and sponsoring legislation that will allow American troops to remain in Iraq for training and protection.

I’m not supporting Obama, if I’m supporting him, because of his record or even some of his policy positions. Like Dean, it’s because I trust in his vision and leadership, the ideals he has stood for and espouses. The fact that he’s a compromised politician isn’t the determinative factor in my decision, nor is it with Levin, Durbin, Harkin, Feingold, or anyone else who falls short of appealing but unrealistic standards like those Dean was held to.

Dave wrote "Soooooo, short people have no reason to live?"

Being short is not of any consequence to me.  Read Mike's post, to which I was responding, for context.

Mike wrote "Actually Tom, Im glad I left the Democratic party because people like you have infested it to the point where people like me would much rather go Green or not go at all as again, I shall not simply step in line for the lesser of 2 evils anymore........but keep taunting, it reminds me how your party has really sunk in the last few years."

This is an inscrutable comment. Are you trying to point out something inaccurate in my summary above? I don’t get it.

I am astounded that the Live Earth concert Sunday, July 7 which is supposedly going to be televised all over the world, is relying on being covered here in America by only NBC and MSNBC!

I can picture it now, little bits and pieces of the concert, interrupted by unimportant news about missing women and of course countless advertisements.

I have emailed C-span to cover this important event. Please do so if you will at: events@c-span.org.

I also wrote to the Al Gore website where their Live Earth email comes from: AlGore@algore.com

I believe they are foolish to rely on NBC to do anything important for the world, much less anything that is opposed to big oil, big corporation polution, etc. Such a huge event should have as much coverage as possible. They are even organizing house parties to watch the event. Can you imagine the flops those would be would only NBC coverage?!

Bloomberg is in the race to deny Democrats the electoral votes of New York. If he does and Fred Thompson is the Rebublican, we lose the south and the moderates. Only a true progressive ticket preferably with a western or mid south combination picks up the correct pieces in a three way race. Gore/Schweitzer or even theoretically  Edwards/Clark; but Obama might have the juice to carry New York and Ohio.

Can Hillary carry any state that Kerry didn't with Bloomberg in?  

18.

At least i didn't call you a ReThug plant

... i'd never do that, unless true.

Dave wrote "At least i didn't call you a ReThug plant... i'd never do that, unless true."

What is this even about? 

Phil, i'm not voting for Bloomberg.

... nor am i precognitive like Tom. LOL

Bloomberg would steal moderate women that might vote for Hillary instead of Fred Thompson. Iowa allows cross over caucusing and Hillary needs those votes to win the caucus. Independents don't caucus.

Thompson would win in a race between those three. Bloomberg might still be a Republican at heart. Giuliani comes in third and any Democratic candidate wins, so he is most damaged by Bloomberg. 

21.

Better a real Republican than Republican-lite.

Hillary's got to dump the consultants and her consultant-like staff.

Her speeches as a  Senator are deadly.

Deaniac would you vote for Hillary/Obama against Bloomberg/Hagel and Thompson/Hunter?

Couple of things....

Our Demcrats need a sit-down talk from someone who wants to win next year...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1350

And is anyone covering Dean's speech at TBA today with pictures?  Is C-Span there at all?

I’d like to set the vitriol aside for a moment and also clear the air a little. So few things in life, even bedrock moral tenets or at least their application, are strictly black and white. What explains the phenomenon that occurs when I write a post which challenges the perceptions or conclusions reached by some people, all one-time supporters for Dean’s presidential campaign, using what passes for principles of logic and applying facts to the analysis? They’re basically requests for a reply that responds in kind. Do you see that in drawing my own conclusions, based on my perceptions and reasoning, the implication is that I’m asking those whose orthodoxy I’ve challenged to point out the error of my argument, or engage in an honest dialogue on the subject?

That happens and, at other times, people agree with something I said. The likelier result, however, is eerie silence, or more predictably, this sort of oblivious sloganeering, comments about being condescending or, to paraphrase, charges of Republicanism. It’s really awkward. People here are smart, devoted, and thoughtful. They can be funny, insightful, provocative, even reasonable.

I’m glad everyone’s passion here is politics, and everyone is surely entitled to their opinion, but when one gets presented here, let’s at least agree it is open for discussion and dissent. This place is starting to resemble a wall for political graffiti much more than Speakers’ Corner in Hyde Park. I find it baffling and a little depressing.

Virtual discussion & fundraiser tomorrow night (7:00 p.m. EDT) for Rep. Tom Allen (we're trying to get rid of complicit Susan Collins, BTW). She's hardly "moderate," folks. 

Come on over!

with the exception of Gore(and we have yet to hear his policies total) your statement does not apply to the current list of candidates and lets be honest with each other shall we.................do you REALLY truat any of em?

==============

What makes you think human nature is any different if one wears a "green party" label?  Do you really believe such a party, or any party would be immune from corruption and distrustfulness?  I know you are not that naive, Mike, and power corrupts, regardless of political persuasion.

Not that I am against a multi-party system.  I was like you once, thinking of it as a panacea.  It would be an improvement, but don't expect miracles. 

Like I say, alternative parties will become a reality when they can court the party in power through cooperation and collaboration, not by threatening and confrontation - to change the system and process that would be more hospitable and workable for a multi-party system.  A runoff, or instant runoff, or a combination of both (in some cases) may be needed to thwart the deterioration of democracy by making sure the winner gets more than 50% of the vote.

It would be expensive, and inconvenient for some voters, but that is the price of true democracy.

I would definitely vote for a Bloomberg before a Hillary or Obama, the wrinkle is Hagel.

each and everyone of my posts have an implied IMHO attached Tom, and 27 word are quite a few to spray paint on a wall,

what you have been doing is challenging the right of other posters to directly question Democratic leadership direction, and leadership is always fair game in the cat herd

a Bloomberg quote @ Politico, simon

"How does a 5'7" divorced billionair jew running as an independent from NY have a chance?

I don't know Mike, but a billionair donating tons of money while endorsing the ME warmongering Lieberman doesn't have a chance in my book.

Linda

Bloomberg for sure would hurt Hillary. I'm not sure if any others.

Hotmail (MSN) requires one to grab one of their email accounts, in order to access the Live Earth portal, Joan.

I haven't checked the inbox in ages (although, it's a vast improvement from Hotmail's old crappy stuff).

I know..it's difficult to escape the grasp of Bill Gates & Co., Joan. It's too late now...they bundled the branding & sponsorship eons ago.

Phil wrote "what you have been doing is challenging the right of other posters to directly question Democratic leadership direction, . . ."

Do people here feel I have challenged their right to do anything?

but you prefer slagging Democrats and boosting an anonymous candidate for a third party or parties whose agenda hardly differs

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tom this was the point of your post belittling third party possibilities wasn't it

IMHO the Democratic Party would indeed be a Republican-lite party if the threat of an exodus from the left wasn't lurking

You seem genuinely fearful that the likes of Mike would abandon Hillary and give us Thompson.

If that is what happens the party will desreve what it gets.

34.

mainefem, I understand about the  Gates monopoly. I have a lot of ms programs I use but always have to  maintain a mailbox there to access any info about them. I never use it.

Phil, I just agree with Monica's comment.

I like Real choices.

If I have to choose between a Real Republican, or a Republican Lite wearing a (d) after their name, I choose the Real Republican...and that is to stop the Democrats from going in to extinction. Because if we put another DLC'er, Corporatist, as our front runners are, that will be all anyone know the Democrats to be and that will be their end.

Something of course the DLC'ers have been trying to do.

We thought maybe folks would have learned the lesson after 04 and the pandering that happened. We said, "maybe it just really has to get HORRBILE for everyone to wake up".

Apparently folks don't think things are so bad.

Apparently they are ok losing their rights-Patriot act

Apparently they are ok with being a Conqueror, permantely at warm with anyone who threatens...or just has something we want.

Appaarnetly we can end life as we know it, due to man made polution, becuase hey, our politicians are actually wanting to give our tax dollars to private companies to increase the pollution.

Don't you worry about that Single Payer Health Care system like Canada or other civilized countries, we won't let that happen here in the good 'ol US of A.

s/b Apparently they are ok being a Conqueror, PERMANENTLY at WAR with anyone who threatens...or just has something we want

27.

No.

That's why i'd prefer something like Gore/Dean, Feingold/Boxer, DK/Ravel, Edwards/Leahy...

anyone... anyone but Clinton, worse yet Obama

IMHO Bloomberg would only except to complicate the New York primary which could be a plus for Obama or Edwards, either of which would be preferable to Hillary.

As national candidates, Bloomberg and Hagel are almost unknown among the average voter. As Independents they would get nowhere.

Phil wrote  to say that my comment suggesting Mike and John, among others, prefer slagging Democrats and boosting an anonymous candidate for a third party or parties whose agenda hardly differs from Kucinich's, challenged the right of posters to question the direction of Democratic leadership direction, and belittled to third party possibilities.

This is intriguing.  Thank you for that amplification.  Mike and John definitely do slag Democrats and boost third parties, whose candidates are very clearly annonymous, because none are running or have yet been selected to run as nominees, so far as we know presently.  John said Kucinich's agenda hardly differs from that of the Green Party. In other words, my attempt was to present undisputed facts.  I believe I succeeded, but if there's disagreement about this, it really helps explain things. 

Whether that belittles the prospects of third party candidates is neither here nor there.  It's pretty common knowledge that such prospects are terrible, but I don't find any shame in the running.  The fact that it's a Sisyphean struggle hardly makes it ignoble, just doomed.  None of these observations are cracks or even snide remarks.  Things are what they are.  I can't change them by representing them differently.

29.

sooooo missunderinterpreticlassificationated.

It's otay.

I like Obama, he will remain within the top three on my list.

If Al runs, different story.

What do we owe to the Democratic Party?

The question should be, "What does the Democraric Party owe the ordinary people who have given it their time, money, and votes?

And the answer would be, "Seemingly little or nothing but....."

Could you read that?  I couldn't.  I meant to write "Phil wrote to say that my comment suggesting Mike and John, among others, prefer slagging Democrats and boosting an anonymous candidate for a third party or parties, whose agenda hardly differs from Kucinich's, challenged the right of posters to question the direction of the Democratic Party's leadership, and belittled third party possibilities."

opps
that should be misunderinterpreticlassificationated.

Too many ss's.

LOL

Gotta run... love ya'll, mean it!!

bbl -shopping

FRED from OR
Wed, 06/20/07
12:15 pm
___________________________________________________________________________

No panceasea Fred.........just an alternative......Ive read articles of discontent within the Green Party..yes, power corrupts..........which is why I dont care for politics in general..............cheerio

"I don't see any difference between the parties," he said. "They can't stop pork. They can't stand up to the NRA.They can't work together."

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Michael Bloomberg

In the last 72 hours, Mike Bloomberg has been on the cover of TIME, the subject of the feature story in Business Week and a special guest on NBC's "Nightly News."

The three media outlets described the NYC mayor as "forthright," "prosaic," "self-confident," "tough," an "Eagle Scout," "an executive," "a CEO," "a cutthroat businessman," "a press mogul," "a Wall Street mogul," a "technocrat," someone who "isn't typical," "a risk-taker," "self-made," "a billionaire," "a self-made billionaire" a "pint-size billionaire" and, of course someone with "no political debts" who is "beholden to no one."

49. The Democratic party, and the Corporate-Democrat candidates deserve all the slagging they get from me and lots of others. In 5 months, they as the majority have not acco[pmlished anything except to make themselves look like a bunch of idiots. Rove says BOO!, and they dive for cover.

As an Indie, I'm excited about the prospect of a Bloomberg candidacy, even though I'm not sure of some of his positions. He would present a viable and credible choice between Clinton or Obama and any of the Repug pretenders.

With Mike and m,any others, I don't intend to be forced into voting for the "lesser of evils" again. I still mentally gargle every time I remember I voted for Kerry, even though it was an ABB vote.

Bloomberg: How can a (former) RINO be better than (current) DINOs?

DHS Acknowledges Own Computer Break-Ins

Jun 20, 6:34 AM (ET)

By TED BRIDIS

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Homeland Security Department, the lead U.S. agency for fighting cyber threats, suffered more than 800 hacker break-ins, virus outbreaks and other computer security problems over two years, senior officials acknowledged to Congress.

In one instance, hacker tools for stealing passwords and other files were found on two internal Homeland Security computer systems. The agency's headquarters sought forensic help from the department's own Security Operations Center and the U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team it operates with Carnegie Mellon University.

In other cases, computer workstations in the Coast Guard and the Transportation Security Administration were infected with malicious software detected trying to communicate with outsiders; laptops were discovered missing; and agency Web sites suffered break-ins.

...
http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20070620...

Sitka
Wed, 06/20/07
1:29 pm

- Integrity

- No IOU's

- Pragmatic

- Problem solver

- Very Dean like, not packaged to say the correct things, he says what he means

- Forget lables he is a very popular Mayor in New york who has brought together liberals/moderstes, black/white/hispanic, etc.....all groups respect his leadership

- Does not follow the party rule book

LGF NR

There's a new piece of political real estate on the market (Bloomberg) and his salespeople are already saturating the market with promos.

Between you and rdorgan we'll have to rename this the OBLOOMA BLOG.

OBLOOMA BLOG.

Good one, Sitka